silent treatment in a relationship

The Deafening Brutality of the Narcissist’s Silent Treatment

What happens when someone uses the silent treatment in a relationship? 

Feeling included is crucial to the human experience.  Humans must feel connected to each other to be happy, even introverts who enjoy a large amount of independence.

According to Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, the need to belong and feel accepted falls under the basic needs of food, water, and safety.  In fact, this need can be so strong, it can override the needs of food and safety.

Psychologists consider the silent treatment a form of abuse.  It’s a popular form of mental torture used by narcissistic individuals, whereby they cut their victims off by not talking to them for extended periods of time. Sometimes days or weeks, which keeps the victim in a constant state of fight-or-flight during which they feel isolated and rejected, as well as physically sick.  The body’s physical reactions to this mental anguish are real. Headaches, stomachaches, and a general punched-in-the-gut feeling are the most commonly reported symptoms.

The Silent Treatment in a Relationship

When the narcissist ignores, shuns, and ostracizes you, it’s more hostile and aggressive than if they’d verbally attacked you.  Because this type of abuse is harder to specify, it can be harder to heal from.  When someone is ostracized it affects the part of their brain called the anterior cingulate cortex.  Silent treatments trigger what is called “social pain” in this part of the brain, which also detects actual physical pain.

The depth of pain from the silent treatment depends upon the intensity of the narcissist’s ignoring. The pain detected by the brain then makes the victim feel lonely and rejected. It lowers the self-esteem and the victim thinks their life is unworthy. It causes great harm to the sentiments of the victim. This condition may even cause critical conditions and permanent damage to the victim’s psyche.

The narcissist uses silent treatment as an aggressive measure of control and punishment for something you did; a sadistic form of “time-out”, ostracizing you as motivation for you to behave. It is the ultimate form of devaluation, causing you to feel voiceless, alone, dismissed, negated as a person; invisible. Click To Tweet

The detrimental, holistic effects of this type of abuse include:

 1. Emotional – Since it is a form of social rejection; it provokes a mix of negative emotions including frustration, intense anger, and eventually, resignation and despair.

2.  Psychological – Psychological effects of the silent treatment include low self-esteem, a sense of loss and not belonging, increased stress and loss of control.

3.  Behavioral – The constant fear of receiving the silent treatment casts a shadow of uncertainty in your life, you begin to second-guess yourself: Am I doing the right thing? Am I saying the right words? You try hard to avoid it, which changes you to a person that is no longer YOU.

4.  Physical – Different levels of emotional stress often lead to physical symptoms and illnesses, such as high blood pressure, heart disease, cognitive decline, weight loss or gain, blood clots, and even certain types of cancer.

Examples of the Silent Treatment

  • You point out that something they did was unacceptable (i.e., cheating, lying) and the narcissist leaves and stays gone for a week.  Then, comes back to your door as though nothing ever happened.
  • The two of you exchange text messages regarding an important issue.  The narcissist texts “Bye” and you don’t hear from them again for five days.  Or, they say they’ll come over then never show up, nor explain their absence afterward.
  • You sit down beside the narcissist to talk about something that’s bothering you and they proceed to read the newspaper.
  • You ask the narcissist a question, and they carry on as if they didn’t hear you, even if you repeat the question a second or third time.
  • The two of you get into an argument.  The narcissist packs their suitcase and stays gone for a month with no attempt to contact you and ignores any texts you may send them.

How to Handle the Silent Treatment

If someone in your life has used this form of emotional abuse to get you to comply with their demands, you should consider using the opportunity to initiate No Contact.  Do not reward this passive-aggressive abuse tactic, as it will lead to them doing it even more since they derive a sense of satisfaction (if not “guilty” pleasure) at seeing the negative effect they can have on you.

Don’t send pleading text messages or lengthy emails asking them to respond to you.  From their perspective, it proves to them that they are highly important, even more important than you are to yourself. Implementing No Contact during the silent treatment in a relationship would put you back into a place of power because when they prance back onto the scene believing you’ll fall to their feet, they’ll encounter nothing but the sound of crickets…

Copyright 2018.  Kim Saeed and Let Me Reach.

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  1. Deborah Rivers

    I get the silent treat every week at least once for 3-4 days. So I told him he’s a narc and the silent treatment isn’t going to bother me any more because I know what he’s doing acting like a child of 12 and that I don’t give a damn if he ever speaks to me again. And that I enjoy the peace and quiet.

  2. Laurie

    My now ex texted me on his way to work on my birthday to tell me he was leaving I packed his stuff he picked it up and haven’t heard a word from him in 2 yrs!

  3. Sometimes the silent treatment is a blessing. It gives you time to reflect on the relationship with this person, see it for what it is and learn to let go in the process. If they have been gone for a period of time, let them stay gone.

  4. Tera Clouse

    I never realized the silent treatment was a form of devalue. I had struggled to see the devalue and discard phases with my ex because I couldn’t get him to leave. He was needy/clingy and often resorted back to love bombing as a form of making up for his bad behavior. I experienced every form of silent treatment, and eventually started calling it what it was and acting like I didn’t care anymore if he did it (actually was nice to just have the peace). Once it stopped giving him what he wanted, he didn’t do it anymore, but he escalated in other ways. Particularly his paranoia that I would leave him or have an affair.

  5. Anonymous

    what if the narc gives you the silent treatment but they are the only person you have to talk to

    1. Kim Saeed

      Better to be alone than with someone who emotionally abuses you every day. Alternately, find a MeetUp group, join an activity at your local parks and rec center, etc. You don’t have to isolate yourself with an abuser.



    2. Tanja

      Anonymous, there are others to talk to. Don’t let yourself be taken in of the fact that the Narc is the only one. Let the silent treatment be your guide in what you want and need in your life. Let the silent open you up in order for you to see you and know your worth. Let the silent lead you into a new life that you deserve. Don’t be afraid of the silent, because you will hear noise again but by then hopefully you will be able to let go of the noise coming from the Narc.

  6. Chrissyanthemum

    My POS ex-narc pulled this crap on me twice, each time disappearing for three days without me hearing from him at all. I was PISSED and, since actions speak louder than words, decided to give him a taste of his own medicine by giving HIM the silent treatment in response. The degree of his panic and hysteria was incredible once he realized that I was not sitting around crying and eager to talk to him. Phone call after phone call after phone call, once he was finished “punishing” me, he blew up my phone and even threatened to call the police because he was “sure something must have happened that I would not be answering.” Both times, he ended up on my doorstep, wild-eyed and scared that he’d finally gone too far. It worked, though…he never disappeared on me again (although, in retrospect, I should have called it quits right there! He still continued to pull EVERY OTHER trick in the narcissist’s arsenal, though, eventually leading me to end the relationship in order to preserve my own sanity).

  7. Carol

    Agreed I had to file for divorce after 24 years I could see in his face the mask was slipping. More and more silent treatments, sneaking around, lying, flirty texts with strangers I was DONE. His mother is also a TOXIC Narc and you can see the evil inside her eyes.

  8. Carol

    My cheating husband went no contact nearly a year ago he’s a psychopath and I got tired of his affairs inside our Family home. I will NEVER try to contact him he disgusts me. He even abandoned our beautiful dog in the discard so shameful a 53 year old man!?

  9. Tony

    Great article. I’m a big man who can take a beating physically and verbally. But receiving the silent treatment is torment.
    Good advice regarding not initiating contact, ive done this before. She comes back, knowing I’m waiting for her……not anymore

    1. Kim Saeed

      Glad you’ve decided to stick to your guns, Tony! Wishing you all the best!


  10. I have suffered the silent treatment,I know it is hell.I also know a person who can do that to you and then twist it to his best advantage is not someone to be trusted.

  11. L. Watt

    I was married for over a decade to a man who emotionally & even physically, financially as well as other ways. He once left 4 days right after he was paid. We had little food yet he left w/o giving us a cent. That time I found him passed out in our car, the one he’d never teach me to drive nor even let me even learn to drive. My granny bought one he lost through neglect. By he was in back passed out. A woman Unknown to me was in the drivers seat he never allowed me with keys. I was angry. I made her leave. No doubt she was his girlfriend. Car at Anderson Reservoir 4 days later. I just thought he might be there like de ja vous and another couple was there that I didn’t know, a coworker and his girl who knew Bob was married. I drove car home after I put kids in car and she left in huff when I said that it was our car and my husband and”Out!” I drove home. He didn’t help and never cooperated nor did he discuss her or apologize yet always acted like I’d cheated on him after 2 years when I finally divorced him and 6 months later(too fast, I know) remarried a bossier and then after 9 yes. Realized “he” was a prdiophile, so…

    1. umin

      wow! I hope you are recovering from all of that. Stay in prayer to release from all that negativity.

  12. Tink

    My mother would do this all the time whilst we were quite young. This article captures the profound damage it does to a young psyche. Thank you for such a informative article.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi Tink, thank you for your kind praise. Wishing you all the best as you heal.

      Kim XoXo

  13. S

    That’s exactly how my husband treats me most time… Don’t know what to do??

  14. andrea

    This is a profoundly important article! Thank you for writing it. It explains how deadly the silent treatment is. I wish I had read an article like this when I was dating the narcissist. It would have been super helpful, although I was so in to him that I would have rationalized his abusive behavior in some other way.

  15. Pingback: The Silent Treatment Plays on Your Fear of Abandonment - Let Me Reach with Kim Saeed

  16. John turner

    4 weeks ago my gf of 3 years didn’t come home after drinking all night. I proceediddd to harass her verbally by calling her names and putting her down. I wanted jsut an apology and instead she shut down. Wouldn’t acknowledge me and left with the kids. She still rarely speaks to me and will not let me sit by her, sleep in the same bed, or even hug me. I feel like I’m losing my mind. I cry I get mad I’m so hurt and empty feeling. She dumped me 3 days into the shutoff or ignoring phase and as I lay here , my last night in our house cause she kicked me out. I still don’t sleep, I can’t eat, I have had to start seeing a counselor. She says she just shuts down but I’ve never seen anything like it. I have been sobbing in front of her for 3 straight weeks and not once has she asked if I was okay, grabbed my hand or hugged me. We have been together over 3 years. I’ve never felt so worthless and she says I’m a mental person. I dont know what to do and she will not budge, I’ve never seen this, last time she was cold but this is almost. In human. What can I do to get thru to her to show her how much I hurt from her into irjng me. My emotions have gone completely out of control.

    1. Anonymous

      U better read up on narcissistic personalities….they have little remorse and lack empathy…They r sick and can not change…..u r just an object to,them when they don’t need u anymore they discard u.

  17. Van Vasko

    I have tried NC during the silent treatment but in the end I am still expected to apologize to get back into the “good graces”. Informative and helpful as now I know i’m not the only one and I’m not “crazy” or just “too sensitive”.

  18. gigi

    This is interesting – I have thankfully had very little of this in my relationships but the funny thing is that I got assertive and called out the two narcissists I’ve had in my life and then they went silent – but I was HAPPY they went silent because that means YAY no more narcissistic BS in my life! 🙂 I stopped being someone they could use for their supply and maybe they think they “discarded” ME but really I gave THEM the boot out of my life. I was so worried about seeing my current narcissist ex-friend in public after going no contact and WHAT A BLESSING I saw her at an event last night and she almost ran the other way from me / ignored me! THANK GOD! I smiled so big on the inside. Narcissist want you because you’re more powerful, happy, adjusted than they are. When you call them out on is, get assertive and state your boundaries, they run and hide. I am taking the silent treatments as a victory…!

    1. Kim Saeed

      Rock on, Gigi! Yes, the silent treatments can absolutely become a source of peace and victory 🙂


  19. David

    Not sure what Cluster B disorder my ex-had but there were so many instances where her behaviour was “typical” of many of the disorders.

    There were signs that I saw but did not process them at the time but I chose to ignore them as my father was dying. Whilst I was strong enough I would stand up to her and she would “meekly” back down. After dad died and I needed support, the devaluing and passive abuse became horrendous, couldn’t believe what was happening so after 3 months I walked (after I was informed that she did not love me).

    That was almost 2 years ago and am now in a much better place. Funny how life has a way of showing you things at the right time, hadn’t seen my ex for months. Couple of months ago I saw her coming towards me in her car whilst I was waiting to turn into the car park, always wondered how I would feel first time I ran into her. I thought “ok” I won’t be a jerk and blank her and I looked into her car, she moved her face forward towards the windscreen of her car as she drove past me so that I could not miss her, and then she blanked me, not sure what I had expected. That said to me “Here look at me ignoring you, I cannot see you”. This far down the line still feels the need to devalue me and maybe even get a kick out of the fact that she thinks she has made me hurt. And she has been in another relationship for a long time too.

    That little incident made realise that I have learnt a lot from my experience and am now stable and feeling positive. I felt no anger or irritation just a sense of relief that I am well rid of her and no longer need to pander to the shit behaviour or be the butt of her vitriol and be a sycophant into the bargain.

    However I still found myself wondering why she made such a “fuss” of sticking it to me

  20. AJ

    My bf has been doing this since we got together. Its taken 3 years, a nervous breakdown and me to finally see his repeated method at attempting to control me for me to decide no more. I can see how destructive his behaviour has been to my well being..all he cares about is himself and HIS life…so this time, after 3 days silence so far he’s getting the silent treatment right back. I now know that there is nothing wrong, he’s not dead or in trouble…he just thinks he can dip back in when it suits him and I’ll play along and fall for his paper promises and BS…..this time is different, I don’t need him or his cruel messed up way of trying to manipulate me. I’m walking ahead without him and happy and carefree..HUGE lesson learnt…some people are so deceitful and twisted in a stealth way…so glad I’ve seen his game..

  21. Jules

    I’m so glad I found this page. I have been friends with someone since kindergarten who has BPD, and she is also high on narcissistic traits, if not NPD itself. I’ve gone through the ups and down throughout our friendship. Over the past few years I’ve been working on asserting healthy boundaries — an area of my life I was weak in. Those healthy boundaries are proving too much for our friendship to bear since even the simplest boundary, like asking to change the subject when it’s something unsettling for me (abuse of her twin great-nieces) turns in to unchecked anger and rage.

    Recently, I had coffee with her to assert my boundaries, very clearly and simply, and focused on the behaviors and not her as a person. I finally asserted my boundaries with consequences, a first but necessary step for me. Aside from since seeing her at a relative’s birthday party for 1 year old twins, where she showed no ability to honor my boundaries, I’ve since been the recipient of the silent treatment.

    I’m sharing here because this isn’t the first time. It happened when we were children, it happened when we were older. And every time I went back after some period of time to open the door to our relationship. I was a people pleaser, bad boundaries, and a co-dependent with not a lot of knowledge or self-awareness at how I had been contributing to the dysfunction. That said, things are much different now. With the help of counselors over the past years I’ve really grown a lot. Now, I find myself facing down No Contact for good with my long-time friend of 48 years. I’m 53.

    I’m here asking for support. I know in my heart that I have to remove the toxic dysfunction from my life, and the constant drama that is her life and entire family. There are all these feelings that are coming up and I’m not sure what to do with them. I’m angry. I’m hurt. I’m sad.

    I now realize we were both friends but we had two very different friendships. When I finally realized, with the help of counseling, that the “friendship” to her was a source of validation, control, manipulation, or “supply,” and I was punished, gaslighted, lied to, raged at, or silent-treatmented through the years, it made me sick. I’m working through the feelings but I now see more clearly what’s happened.

    I’m 10 days in now of the silent treatment, and I’m going No Contact for good. I do understand the difference intent between the silent treatment vs. no contact. The former is retaliatory and punitive, while the latter is all about self-care. Still, it doesn’t take away all the feelings I’m feeling right now.

    Does anyone have any advice on what I can do to move through this transition? I’d appreciate your help, support, and advice. Thanks Kim for including this brutal behavior on your site for discussion. I’m glad I found it.

    1. cleo

      I hope you are doing well and being strong. Yes, there is a huge difference in NC and the silent treatment. I’m going through it now with my ex (he doesn’t know it yet). I’m on day 22 of NC. My mother did this to me when I was a child. I’ve never felt loved. Hope you have lots of love in your life.

  22. Lisa

    I am doing this now, although he probably doesn’t realize it yet. My situation is that he is using the silent treatment with me, but has left something very important of his, in my possession. This is causing me some anxiety as I know he will have to contact me though to get it back. I am thinking of having the police here for when he returns for this object because I am so afraid of him. I am scared of repercussions of this though.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi Lisa. How big is the object? Can you mail it, certified so you’ll have proof of having mailed it? Or, could you box it up and have a friend deliver it to his front porch?

    2. I placed my ex’s belongings in the empty trunk of my car, pulled the lid down so it appeared closed, then emailed him to let him know his stuff was in my unlocked trunk and he could retrieve it any time. He certainly rushed right over to get his things, but I was absolutely stunned when he arrived with another woman by his side. Be ye ready…those people have an evil inclination toward exacting revenge. He didn’t lay a finger on me but it took months to heal from that last blow…
      Good luck to you. Mine used the silent treatment regularly. Very painful! Don’t put up with it. I began to realize even when he was around, I was completely alone. Good luck-

  23. I feel like I have just read about my life here… it has happened so often since we have and the ST always starts after something that was done that was hurtful to me. I am stunned….. I never realised I was dealing with this issue.. not from him, but it all makes sense now. The sudden GOODBYE / GOODNIGHT / CIAO after talking about something important to me… devalued me and I never knew why and what I was doing wrong. This last time is the longest Silent Treatment I have been dished out.. I received a RED CARD (soccer) and told I am being punished for one week and that I must have a happy week. I was promptly blocked from his Twitter account and he found some new girl to replace me the next day. She had nothing of value on her account to warrant a follow except that she was pretty. I feel so unwanted and in pain…………..

  24. Laura

    Ok, then, she could have been misdiagnosed if she didn’t suffer from this disorder before the relationship.

  25. Laura

    This is a message for Ingrid – on the 6th of October you wrote to me here and I have been trying to find you since. I wanted to talk to you. Please, let me know if you are around.

  26. Gabriela Heidegger Capote

    My story is complicated because i have a borderline personality disorder and he has narsisistic, i struggle with this for a while, 4 years, i left him a few times and he always return, he even got married and start a new life in another country and came back, always, i really want things work, we both went to rehab, therapy, but last december 31 have a horrible argue at our new years vacation at the beach and we left each other… im cool about this, last time when he do this silent treatment i just feel that i couldnt breath, its been 10 days, i know he will contact me eventually but this time ill not accept his lies and excuses… im tired to try everything to make this happen, im sure about his feelings, i know he is sick emotionaly, he love me when he is awake, when he finds his conciousnes, but his disease is stronger, he is an addict in all aspects and he cant see his reality, he have no will to make things change, he is just existing and spreading his hate and fear, i cant make anything at all to change his destiny, the best thing i can do is to stay away… i feel kinda bad for not feel anything at all, to feel a relief about this breakup… i finally understand that this disease has no cure… god bless him, cus i know he is lost now…

    1. Kim Saeed

      Thank you for sharing, Gabriela, and I can totally relate to what you’re feeling. I’d be curious to know, were you “borderline” before you met him?

      1. Laura

        I would think that if a person suffers from Bipolar Personality Disorder, this is not something you get after being with someone. It is in you and not acquired after a relationship. Besides, it is Borderline what she said and not Bipolar. Either way, this is not caused by being with a person.

        1. Kim Saeed

          Actually, it can happen in abusive relationships that a person is diagnosed as having borderline or BPD when, in fact, they are suffering from Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome. It happens very commonly and is one sad reason why mothers sometimes lose custody of their children in court.

          1. prettygirl

            I feel this I feel myself splitting

  27. Chris

    Narcissists……ah, it’s the female covert narcissists that men have to watch for, since they are masters at toying with your emotions by pushing all the right buttons. My covert N was adept at exuding an air of charm an equanimity. Someone as successful and measured as she appears to be can’t possibly have ulterior motives, right? These seemingly poise and “classy” women lead a double life that will leave a top notch spy for the Mossad teeming with envy; how can someone so “nice” and classy have secret lovers for the sole purpose of pleasure and self aggrandizement, and carry on with her life as if she’s an upstanding member of the community? These people have no empathy, and whenever they say that they have a busy schedule ahead, or have other important things to take care of……beware! They just suck energy from you for a while, but the moment you become boring or a burden they move on for a while, but then come back around again, and then disappear again….

    1. Wally

      Hey Chris,
      I’m in the same boat with my wife. When I try to start a conversation or ask a questions, she is great and just looking at me with a “oh really” look and then saying nothing at all. This usually happens when the question I ask is routine, not major…like, “what did you think of the shrimp?”. She also has a tendency to just turn away from me when another individual asks her a question, or a phone/text rings. The latter is especially frustrating. I’m always the last priority, and now that I’ve pointed-out that I know what is going on, she plays along with giving me attention, such as muting the TV and then just staring at me as I ask a question…and then she says a quick answer and un-mutes. Her communication is clear though…”ok, I’m listening to your stupid question…taking time out of my self-interest to keep you from getting agitated…”.

      I have a 6-year-old, and I don’t think I can leave him with her even with joint custody without feeling like I left him to a hungry lion. Feeling trapped.

  28. Reese

    Hello everyone ,

    I am currently in phase 2 transitioning into phase 3 of a devastatingly destructive relationship with a Narc . The relationship lasted nearly 2.5 years until when just recently I’ve initiated the ” no contact ” rule which has its ups and downs in terms of how easy or difficult it can be on any given day . Last week was easier than this week , but it’s still a struggle at times. We had contact exactly 6 days ago when he randomly sent me a picture of himself sitting on a couch in the house of a woman out in LA that he is currently involved with , having sex with , ect . Only thise who have been through this can understand how painful even the thought out our narc screwing someone else is. We become obsessed with their sex and personal life . We cannot wrap our minds around the rejection . Anyway , he had a cat on his lap in the picture he sent and claimed he was doing some ” spiritual healing ” to become more like me . I knew I shouldn’t have responded but I said ” cute cat” I was diligent to not compliment him at all in the picture . It made the contact a bit easier , but it was and always is inhealthy to have any contact whatsoever with these people . I wished him the best on his journey . I told him that eventually he will need to ” face his shit ” . It was at that very moment that he initiated the silent treatment and did not respond nor reach out to me again . Today makes the 6th day which is a record . I have come to love causing narcissistic injury to him , and I’ve become like a master at it . As much my heart craves to speak with him , I will not give into it , because all too often we give in to initiating contact with these monsters and are left even emptier and devastated as we were before . It’s so evil . So corrupt and insidious . So dark . I totally agree with all of you who said that no contact is the only way to get your power back . It is the only weapon that hurts them .you must be indifferent although it is agonizingly difficult at times . My narc is 25 years old , stunningly beautiful man . Muscular , beautiful eyes , long lashes , golden skin , and tatoos . He is physical perfection , he is sexual perfection . He is highly addictive and irresistible . I saw the red flags over and over again and as an intuitive empath myself , I knew better , but I fooled myself into thinking that because I was so spiritual , so compassionate and loving that I could help him face his demons and help him heal . My intentions were met with disastrous consequences in the end . After literally spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on him with gifts , vacations , ect . I finally realized that not even in all I’ve given aside from the money , all my love , all my compassion it’ll never be enough for him . The beginning of the relationship , the phase of idealization was sheer bliss . He kissed me so passionately , held my hand , showered me with so much love and affection . I felt so lucky . So blessed . That I had finally found the man of my dreams . Who was not just gorgeous , but in love with me . Several months later , things started to shift . I went onto his Facebook page and noticed that he was literally flirting back and forth with a woman , a fitness model who is beautiful and popular in the industry . When I questioned him about it , he immediately went into rage mode , blocked me from social media and told me that I am invading his privacy and to stay away from his girl . He claimed that I was his guy and that she was his girl . I was Ina state of shock upon hearing this because I thought we were actually together . Committed . That’s what he led me to believe . The following day he tagged himself as being in a relationship with her . Huh ? Are you serious ? He then became cold as ice towards me , belittling me , calling me deregatory , even racist names , which he had never done before , threatening that if I went anywhere near her and messed up the ” good thing he has ” that he’d kill me . A narcissist WILL literally take you out if you ruin a new potential powerful source of narcissistic supply . I was afraid of him , but moreso afraid that I was enmeshed in this dangerous toxic relationship with a narc . After several months , the mask began to fall in his dealings with miss perfect and he did to her what he did to me . Only worse because she publicly confessed Her love for this man and was even introduced to his family , ect under the false pretense that he would marry her , and start a future with her . When their relationship ended he came back to me , I weakly gave into his sex appeal and charm , but only with catastrophic consequences . I lost everything . And that’s where I am now . There has been no contact for about a week now and I am determined to keep it that way . Anyone who is struggling with the devaluation and discard stage . Stay strong . Read experiences . Come here . Pray . Journal . Literally do anything but reach out to your Narc . It’s like a dog going back to its vomit . I love you all . Peace and love .

    1. Anonymous

      I love this. My ex was the exact same. Beautiful and charming and everyone fell at his feet. And he ate that attention right up. He did the exact same to me. Led me to believe we were together…I was his girl, etc. and one day I woke up and found he had two entirely different relationships with other women. After confessing his undying love for me the day before, I threatened to expose him when I found out and I became the awful bitch who was trying to ruin his life. He told me what he had with her was perfect and be also became cold as ice. Hasn’t contacted me since bc I see they’re still together. She picks and chooses the pictures she makes public on her private facebook page and they’re always pictures of the two of them. I know she thinks she’s waving it in my face but she’s only making a fool of herself. I told her and showed her proof and she said I’m crazy and he never cheated bc they are so happy. It’s crazy how mean he got to me as soon as I found out and confronted him. He was cold as ice and said Im wrong for trying to ruin his life and what he has with her is so great. I often wonder if he actually is happy and stopped his nonsense bc he actually cares for her. Other days I smack myself back into reality

      1. Anonymous

        P.s. he gave me the silent treatment on and off for 7 months. Everytime I threatened to leave he gave reasons why I should stay. Meanwhile hE had 2 separate other relationships. Finally one day I did some investigated and that’s how I found out. I was disgusted. My father had passed away and he was wirh another woman every weekend I was caring for my father and making excuses when I was available. Even went to see this girl on my bday as I later found out. Nice. So after studying up after our last confrontation in august when I exposed him to his current gf, I refuse to give him the time of day. I know he thrives on attention from females. He cheated with 2…and that’s all I know of. I’m sure there were way more than I knew of. I wont even post negative things about him on social media bc he gets off on that. There were several times i posted negative statuses about somethibg completwly unrelated to him and he texted me saying i cant get over him and its obvious. #getoveryourselfbuddy. After our last confrontation, I acted like he doesn’t exist. I’m sure it’s killing him inside. Bc he tried so hard to keep me around those last seven months just for the attention I gave him. He can’t stand not being the center of attention. He wants to know that people want and miss him. He would always throw in my face when his exes supposedly came crawling back. Even tho they seem to be happy in new relationships. He was a pathological liar as well. He stalked my social media for months…I’m sure he did the same to his exes. Wondering why we don’t contact him. I act as happy as can be…even on my worst days

      2. Reese

        He is no longer your nightmare . Let her suffer with him . This man is incapable of love and the longer she lives in then darkness with this emotional vampire the more damage she’ll cause to herself when he leaves her . She he is leaving her soon . Mark my words. Take care love .

      3. Reese

        He is no longer your nightmare . Let her suffer with him . This man is incapable of love and the longer she lives in then darkness with this emotional vampire the more damage she’ll cause to herself when he leaves her . And he is leaving her soon . Mark my words. Take care love .

  29. Cassandra

    I have gone thru 10 years of a narc, from the whole love bombing to the “you arent good enough” routine of him being with other women. Just to have him run right back to me because I became so obsessed and drove the women away. Its about me doing more and being more for him, thats all it is. I prove myself time and time again, just to never be good enough for him. My health gradually got worse, now I just zone out in middle of conversations with people, I resorted to going straight home and climbing in bed after work. I have 5 daughters, who I dont have time for anymore, because I am so depressed. I see a counselor every week, and I know I accept it because of my childhood and my fathers abuse. The narc is in jail now (of course) , he is still trying to withdraw his love from me as a form of abuse. Him being in jail, is for a reason. Its to help me heal. My mom died 3 years ago, and she hated him… I think she does things like that for me as my angel. She was that kind of soul. I can relate to many comments on this forum, and the journey is not easy at all. It will make you hate all people and questions everyone’s motive. You never know these people exist until you fall in love with one. Constant love for yourself with patience, and knowing you are more than your emotions, they do not live your life for you.

    1. Kim Saeed

      I love that you said, “you are more than your emotions”. I am sorry for your struggles and I can relate in some ways. I have just started a homeopathic regimen in hopes of curing my chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia…all from long-term abuse, as well as letting my emotions get the best of me.

      I hope you can find a path to peace and happiness, Cassandra. It saddens me that you distrust people in general, because there are so many good ones out there – although I can certainly understand why you feel that way.

      “Constant love for yourself” — beautiful <3

  30. Bradley

    Hi and thank you to each of you for how your posts have helped me.
    There is so much I could say, comment on….try to offer. Jump in on some of the threads. But I will try to be succinct and just ” give back” given where I am and what I am going through. I hope it helps someone going through the same thing.

    I was in a relationship with a N for over 4 years. I work with this individual. I am on my 2nd attempt at NC….the first one 3 weeks ago worked for 9 days….and then (right out of the N Playbook) the pity card sucked me back in. N’s know PRECISELY where we are weakest.

    It worked….for 8 days my N was ” in crisis” and I was there every day via text, phone, and in person. Like a sucker.

    On Day 8…yet another ” special friend” was thrown in my face. I decided right then and there….back to NC and this time for real. I will not drag you all through my experiences and what I ALLOWED myself to be subjected to, but suffice to say I believe my N was ” constructing the discard and devaluation” to be in control of ” the break up”.

    What I would like to share with you today…for those of you considering NC, or in the early days of NC, as I am on Day 13 now….and am NOT turning back:

    – NC is hard…make no mistake….admit that you are addicted to what you thought was real…
    – NC…even a few days in…provides you mental space to look at it for what it really is….was…..and most importantly….WHAT IT WASN’T.
    – NC has its ups and downs….I had a great Day 12 yesterday….yet woke up today and came right to this blog… I woke up wondering, missing, aching…..” where is she….does she miss me….did I do something wrong……am I overreacting”
    -NC is something that you do for YOU…your health….your sanity…and your self respect.
    – Close ALL the doors to allow NC to work. I told myself I would go NC….but really chose ” No Response”….as I did not block her from text, email, calls. Only last weekend (7 days in) when I proactively blocked her…did I realize I was committed. THEN…..then, my friends….I realized I was really doing this. It allowed me to TAKE BACK CONTROL. I was no longer secretly hoping to see something from her, a sign, a reach out, to validate me….to know I was missed and that I meant something.
    – Do NOT fool yourself…as I did. Block your N. Block every door. Otherwise you are still hoping, still waiting, still yearning…..and you have not moved on.
    -“Make the turn”. What does that mean ? It means at some point you will realize you are doing this for you……its not a game to win…see who ” caves” first. It’s about healing you… your self esteem, your pride, becoming you again. Make the turn….stop reading up on your N…what are they doing… are they feeling…will they ever come around….make it about healing you.

    I’ll wrap by saying this:
    – thank you for all of your posts…they helped, and continue to help me.
    – take NC seriously….really do it….feel the mental freedom and leverage it to gain perspective.
    – do NOT give in….its your life, your self-respect you are fighting for and you deserve it (if you are tempted to break NC….don’t. Call a friend, do something for you…..or tell yourself ” I can always do that tomorrow..” and then don’t.)
    – make it about you. the sooner we all start thinking about, and working on “us”….the faster the healing.
    – 13 days ago I hit rock bottom. Emotionally, energetically, socially, and in the area of self-respect.
    – today I am “coming back”….I have the power over me. NO ONE ELSE. I decide how I am going to feel today….how amazing I am going to be, how special I am.
    – is my N hanging out with her new NS ? Yes.
    – is she making efforts to shove this in my face…and show me how happy she is…how perfect he is…..? Yes.
    – does that hurt ? Yes.

    But its about me now…..and I am in control….I have the power.
    And I am NOT turning back, nor giving up that power.
    I…and in fact WE…all deserve better.

    I am sorry if I wasn’t succinct…..but I felt I had to share.
    Thank you all so much.

  31. I am so glad I found this site. I am in the process of breaking up with my boyfriend of 13 years (he’s currently packing). For as long as we’ve been together, there have been repeated episodes of the silent treatment. I’d say 3-4 a year. For most of these, I had no idea why he was upset and even the few times I knew why he was upset, it was over something ridiculous. An example would be, one time he was driving and we were approaching a stop sign and it didn’t seem like he was slowing down so I just said “stop sign”. I was not even yelling, I just said it. Well he didn’t speak to me for a couple of days because he was offended that I didn’t think he knew how to drive or saw the stop sign. When his behavior began I used to do anything I could to make things right and apologize for things that were ridiculous and non-existent. He also used to periodically send me emails that he’d written in the middle of the night, so I’d get them when I got to work the next morning. These emails would be about how he felt that I didn’t love him and how he felt all alone and was lost and blah blah blah. So THEN, I’d have to confirm that I loved him and all that crap. It was exhausting!! However, I just thought he was overly sensitive and weird. Finally after a few years when he’d start the silent treatment, I’d just go about my business and act like nothing was wrong. I knew there was no sense in trying to talk to him. It would usually end all of a sudden on it’s own and we’d never discuss it. I should also add that I could not get mad at him (even when he was in the wrong), because I’d get the silent treatment and the whole thing would be turned around to be my fault. I got to the point where I was walking on eggshells in my own house, because I just didn’t want to upset this overly sensitive man I thought I was dating. I finally realized I was in the no-win scenario and told him we were done and I actually feel really great about it! I just wish I had realized what I was dealing with a long time ago.

  32. Jordan

    Much love Kim!! Thanks so much for listening and letting me vent.

  33. Jordan

    Looking at the big picture after having removed myself from this mess, it’s a lot easier to see now what my covert narcissist ex girlfriend was trying to accomplish all along. It was an insidious process, but she was slowly trying to lower my boundaries to see how much I would tolerate over time. This would consist of passive aggressive episodes, not having time for me, blowing hot and cold, etc., and then always coming back around with a lot of love and affection. Me taking her back after she would “no-contact” me for a week or two was all the verification she needed that I was a perfect candidate for manipulation. It was all about controlling me and putting me down in a subtle way.

    A big red flag that I noticed early on was her recurring habit of complaining about people – friends, family members, co-workers, etc. But the odd thing was that she would still hang out with these so called friends on a superficial level. She did the same thing with her friends that she did to me, which is to ignore those who don’t play the way she wants play. After a time-out she would rekindle the friendship. The reason she is so good at it is because of her charm and level-headed demeanor. She projects this slightly uppity vibe, so people assume that she’s uber important and they should feel privileged if they get to spend time with her. That’s her whole schtick

    1. Kim Saeed

      Jordan – what you’ve written is spot on. I especially like your last paragraph because these are the trademark behaviors of female narcissists (who, by the way, often beat male narcs out of the park with their cruelty and deception). I am very glad to know you detached and moved on. Kudos!

  34. Tony

    I know this is an old post, but i am really hoping that somebody will read this and have some sort of an answer for me. I am not postiive that my girlfriend that is the topic of my discussion is suffering from one of the problems stated in this post, but if she is a lot our fights weve had seem to make a lot more sense after reading this. I never wouldve spent time searching the subject if what has happened beeteween us recently had never occured. but is has, and i would like to mention i have never posted online about anything, but this is something that i am not comfortable talking to with anybody i know so i guess this is something of a last ditch effort. After looking into the subject i believe my girlfriend might have been suffering from some of the problems explained in this article, but i was not aware of this while we were dating. Which we still are i guess………. i will explain more later. But if i had known such a (disease, problem) existed while we were dating i guess i couldve looked into it more, and im not a doctor so im not entirely sure this is what she has but i would like to think so because i would help me make sense of some things.
    For a little background information we have been dating for over a year. I initially had no intentions of us dating, but obviously she did and came onto me in that way. At the point where i started seeing her i was still ‘seeing’ a few other girls, but when i realized that she was different to me than the other girls i was seeing i have excluseviley been with her and never once cheated. at this point in my life the main reason to ‘see’ girls was for the sexual benefit, mostly because about three years before i started dating this girl i had been with the first girl i ever fell in love with, and it didnt end well so i was not ready to start a relationshiop. i was still very interested in seeing people but in no way was i looking for a relationship. then i started seeing this girl. at first for a few weeks maybe a month it was just like all the others, but for a reason unknown to me i finally was able to connect with her on a higher level and ended up finally letting myself in a relationship with her. It had a lot to do with letting myself trust her. which again i am not entirely sure why i let myself trust her when a lot of girls that i had seen before her i would generally see as a lot more ‘trustworhty’ in a usualy sense.
    :Like i said, i am not sure what was different about her that let me finally have emotional feelings again for a girl, but for some reason i could with her. and we quickly started living together. we stayed living together for a little more than a year, and we had a great relationship. barely ever fought, obviously we did here and there but much less than what i would view as how often a ‘normal’ couple would fight. I didnt realize at the time but looking back on it she displays a lot of the traits described in this article. I cant say with any certainty but i would wager that literally EVERY time we fought, i was the one that apoligized. Wether i believed it was my fault or probably more often that i realized there was no other way to end the ‘issue’ between us than to me to accept the blame. Also if this helps with any answer to my question, as much as i continually showed and told her that i loved her exclusively and she had told me the same thing, for some time she could not accept this fact and would only occasionaly bring it up to me but when she did she would be very emotional and seem to not believe me. Which at the time i saw as her just having a low self esteem, but now i wonder if there was some bigger issue.
    Anyways, we had a great relationship for a little over a year. One day, like we have had a handful of times, we got into an argument. It was a small one to me, and i assure you it was a small argument to her too. But after that day she has not talked to me since. it has been almost two weeks. As abruptly and suddenly as she came, she has now left. Im assuming i will hear from her at some point, but i have assumed that for the longest two weeks of my life and counting. I cannot figure out how to deal with this. i literally have brought my life to an abrupt halt without meaning to to try and figure out the reason she couldve possibly had to do this. I have never felt so abandoned and hurt in my life. The only way i have found so far to deal with it is to drink untill i pass out, which obviously i know is a terrible coping mechanism but at this point i truly feel like i have no other choice. I am 24 years old but i have had plenty of experience with rejection to deal with this appropriately, but it is mostly the suddenness and unexpectedness of all of this that i cannot find an appopriate way to deal with it. I have ran through my mind so many possible reasons why she may have just left like that, i probably thought of close to a dozen but none of them really make sense. And I truly think i am a better judge of charachter than to not realize she may have fallen for somebody else or to not have realized i have just for some reason been being played.
    I am truly lost. I have never had somebody that i loved romantically just dissapear (after over a year) without explanation.I have no idea how to deal with it either. Like i said it has brought my productionion in my life to an abrupt halt, i cant do any of my schoolwork, i cant sleep, i am drinking like a damn alcoholic. I have no idea what to do. I have never been depressed in my life and i have been wondering if depression medication is the way to go. I feel like i have no reason to live. Every attempt to communicate has been ignored. and before somebody gives me a good reason why she may have dissapeared, i texted her mother and asked if she was okay just to know that nothing had happened to her and she promptly let me know that she was fine.
    I NEED somebody to give me something to hold onto. I cant hold onto the girl that i finally decided to let myself love after years and years of superficial encounters and rejecting every girl that wanted anything more. I had finally found the one and now she suddenly dissapeared. Every call ive called she has not answered. Just about every text ive sent she has ignored. WHAT DO I DO? I am looking for any help i can get. Nothing has ever hurt like this. She seems to suddenly have no empathy and i am almost positive i did nothing to bring this on. I have finally been a good boyfriend for the fist time in my life, never cheated and i am hoping she knows this and realizes that i have always been looking out for her even more than myself. I truly have tried to put her wellbeing before mine for as long as ive known her. Im far from perfect so i know theres time where i havnt but the point i trying to make is that i believe i have done everything i can to make her realize that i love her as much as i love myself. And i know i have spoken more about my own feelings than hers so if anybody believes coming on too strong may an issue i can assure you that in the state i was in at the beginning of our relationship i would not have let that be an issue, even to this point in time.
    There are dozens of reasons that have came to mind why she may have suddenly started acting like this. and none of them make sense to me. all of them have reasons why they probably arnt what really happened, and i have been up for countless hours thinking about this so i cant imagine there is somthing that i havent considered. which is why i have turned for the first time to admitting my deepest issue to somebody else. If anybody could offer any help at all i would so greatly appreciate it. I am in the hardest position that i have ever in my life been in, and can not bring myself to feel anything but hurt, i feel like ive been played. I may well have been. The only thing i do not understand is that throughout all of this she has left her facebook profile picture as one of me and her, and her realationship status as in a relationship with me. If she has found somebody else im sure she would have changed that, correct? I am lost. And close to giving up. ANY help would be greatly appreciated.


    1. Kim Saeed

      Tony, thank you for reaching out and sharing your story. I am sorry for the pain you are experiencing – it’s the worst feeling in the world, I know.

      I’ll offer my observations based on what you’ve shared with me here, which became somewhat clear when you shared that she has left her FB pic and status as being in a relationship with you.

      I can’t diagnose someone online obviously, but based on what you’ve shared, she may POSSIBLY possess histrionic traits based on the way she pursued you, her constant need for approval, and also due to her lack of accountability when you two argued in the past. These are all signs of the typical garden-variety narcissist, too, but female narcissists often come on strong and heavy, then need constant attention and reassurance – pretty much engulfing their partners.

      The fact that she has left your pics up on FB, along with the status that she is in a relationship with you leads me to believe that she is giving you the Silent Treatment. She is likely punishing you for “offending” her during your last argument, even though I would bet you were in the right. She will most likely leave you in this state for a while, and then come back when she knows you are desperate for her and willing to overlook all of her relationship crimes. That’s how they condition us – by ignoring and ostracizing us, which is one of the worst forms of abuse.

      There isn’t a lot you can do in these first days regarding processing your feelings because they are activated by your amygdala. She is triggering your fear of abandonment, and I can assure you it’s intentional. I do have a Pinterest board with some helpful exercises:

      Aside from that, you probably should seek therapy and if you start feeling suicidal, PLEASE call the suicide prevention hotline: 1 (800) 273-8255

      In closing, I would like to suggest your using this opportunity to block her and to try to move on. I know it’s easier said than done, but the relationship won’t improve and will only end up making you feel worse in the end.

      Wishing you the best, Tony.

    2. Bradley

      Tony. I have read and re-read your story. I feel compelled to comment. I agree with Kim….as tough as it sounds my friend…..close that door and move on. You have to. For your happiness, your health, and your future. I lived through exactly what you are describing. Some differences, but a N is a N is a N. I have gone 26 days now after completely blocking my N from my life. Its hard to move on….but every day I get different and more powerful insight into what it really was and wasn’t. I also now see that its truly about healing me…..and not what she does, who she is, how she treats me. Do I miss her ? YES. Did I think it was real and perfect love ? YES. Do I now see it for what it was ? YES. You deserve so much….to be happy….to be in a trusting relationship, a two way street…..equal giving and loving. You deserve to be happy, at peace, confident in your relationship and partner.
      Love yourself…..let yourself heal…..close the door on this relationship.(even if you just say ” for now” to feel better).
      Give yourself time and space to heal….don’t rush into anything. It’s NOT easy…..but it IS what you need to do.
      Be strong….and happy.

  35. Nancy

    Oh wow! And I’m a fairly strong, educated and independent and the guy got me. I have never seen nor experienced such brutal emotional abuse to anyone or me in my life. The guy is a very evil genius. How do they know how to do all of this stuff…??? I have left my husband, but he thinks and tells everyone he left me…I alone own the house, so property squabbles don’t exist. He stays 90 miles away from me so I really dont care what he is up to. It’s been three days of no contact. I am allowing him full access to get his belongings, but absolutely no access to me, in anyway. He’s blocked on my phone and socialmedia, etc. I don’t care and I don’t look. I don’t know if he wants to come back or if after only three days he’s found another victim. I don’t care. No one will EVER do that to me again! If you believe you’re with a narcissist, RUN!! NO CONTACT!

    1. Laura

      Nancy – is your post directed to me? Sorry, I am just confused.

      You said “I have never seen nor experienced such brutal emotional abuse to anyone or me in my life. The guy is a very evil genius”.

      Are you referring to my story? or someone else’s?

  36. My boyfriend and I have been together for 2 years. At first we had nothing and we were incredibly happy… And than we came to Colorado where he is from and I got a job and got us an apartment… I’ve been working this past year non stop and paying all the bills while he would sit around playing video games and allowing his family to come live off of me. A few weeks ago we got in a fight about this and he left. He is now staying at his step sisters who I despise and won’t talk to me at all… Nothing. A couple weeks ago we talked once and he said he still loved me, but now he just ignores me. His dad is still staying with me and him and his dad were best friends and now he won’t even talk to his dad. He gets drunk non stop. His family is disappointed in him. He took the dog… Why does he hate me so much? NPD runs in his family. His grandmother has it.

  37. Cecilia


    You are asking how he will continue with his lifestyle after he’s in the same country as his GF (potentially future wife)?

    I am just exiting a relationship with a narc who is married, 2 kids. He lives in my state, travels extensively for work. He always manages to have relationships “supply” outside his home relationship. He covers his tracks neatly, selects his outside partners carefully, and is extra careful never to expose his wife to any whiff of his extracurricular activities. As for how he manages it? Well, it is masterful. He has a specific app he uses to communicate, he limits textual communication, no screenshots are allowed because the app will alert him. He meets women all the time in his industry, so he is constantly culling, selecting and grooming his next sleeping partners. He watched me and admired me for 2 years prior to our involvement. He had guys who were his confidantes reporting back to him on me and my interests so he could easily talk with me when we did see each other. Once we finally got together ( which shamefully was me initiating — I am also married), he began with his TRUE self– which is very hollow. He proclaims that he “has it really good” at home, has another ex ( maybe still involved?) gf that is a married lesbian who quite possibly gave birth to his child earlier this year. He is cultivating new relationships in the state he works in. Has started the grooming with several women there– all visible on his social networks. Unless you’ve been there, one wouldn’t know that he is grooming these ladies, but I recognize it.

    Fact is, these men never stop. This guy just had a baby outside his marriage, and he was still messing around. ( shamefully – without protection with me!)

    What kind of narcissist is that?! He has a huge ego, feels like he us rich and powerful enough that nothing can touch him. I will never say anything to his wife or in our mutual community because I don’t want to be the one to hurt her. He already does that himself. And… The debt collector will come once his baby boy comes to right age and seeks him out. His wife will then have wasted all her life with him ( she’s 41 now– imagine when the kid us 18 and hungry to find his biological dad– that’s a secret that will come out!
    This narc was so certain and yet hollow that he decided a huge prize and gift to his ego was to “turn” a lesbian. Which is what he was doing with his the lesbian GF when she got pregnant. Turns out she was Bi, was very in love with him, but he pushed her away despite the fact she was having his baby.

    See what kinds of messes these people create? If you aren’t married to one, or even if you are, you need to RUN now!! It’s not worth it.

  38. Honestly, I think he is just toying with you and your emotions, trying to hurt you just so he feels superior. I said he doesn’t love, because the disordered dont have the requisite emotions and trust. they are incapable of a loving relationship.

    I think you agree that every time you saw him, he treated you worse. He was becoming violent the 3rd time. Do you agree seeing him a 4th time could be very dangerous?

    You seem like such a kind, considerate, loving person. I am sure you are beautiful as well. With soooo many many fish in the sea, who would treat you like a lady, like you deserve to be treated, why waste another second thinking about the PPOS (pathetic piece of shit) ?

    1. Laura

      Mark – Thanks for your compliments.

      Actually, I was reading through your first post to me and you said you have the gut feeling that if I met him a 4th time he would take his revenge and rage on my physically. I wasn’t going to meet him a 4th time for several reasons: 1) I already paid for air tickets twice out of the 3 times we met to see him, 2) I wasn’t going to accept his offer of 36 hours (which by the way he wanted to reduce to 24) anymore but mostly, because what I saw the last time really scared me. Telling me he could beat me and talking about raping made me feel so scared. Ever since I have been wondering if that was just a threat or whether he could have actually done it.

      Why do you say a 4th time he could take “his revenge and rage” on me physically? What makes you think/feel that? I can’t even imagine him doing that….it is difficult for me to imagine that but I wouldn’t put myself at risk and I have seen how his treatment towards me has been worse every time I met him so a 4th time would be really dangerous. Somehow, and I don’t know why even the 2nd time I was with him I had this insecurity within me, something that told me I wasn’t comfortable being with him alone in his house. When I had arrived that time (first time I visited him in his country) he told me I had to wash my hair because he doesn’t like the bacteria in airplanes (my flight was only 1 and 1/2 hours’ long). I thought he was joking and I told him I didn’t feel like washing it. Then he looked at me really seriously with cold look and said “I am talking seriously”. I was scared to the point that I thought it was better to wash it just in case.

      Thing is I don’t know if the does that to just exert control and power over me or he would actually be capable of harming me physically.

      When you say he doesn’t love, do you mean he doesn’t love ME or he doesn’t love anyone? what is he doing with his gf then? they are nearly 1 year in the distance though but they have met 3 times and he dedicates his time/holidays to her and despite how negatively he talks about things with her he is still with her.

      Do you honestly see this guy as having a disorder? or could he be the typical jerk who of course only wanted sex with me and probably he later saw I had feelings and as he didn’t want anything serious with me he felt he had to finish things with me and he did it in a nasty way? I mean, there are the typical assholes who will treat their gfs/partners badly and finish with them just like that. That is what I wonder – does he sound disordered or is he just a jerk?

  39. Laura

    Mark – Also, just as an example, here is a conversation I had with him in July:

    Me: I understand you are tired after a week away and driving. I only asked and I fully understand u may not feel like talking. Just, I dont need rudeness, especially now.
    Me: When you are free…
    Me: Did you arrive home safely?
    Me: Hope you did anyway, good night.
    Him: I didnt. Still driving.
    Me: How can that be?
    Me: If u were driving at 4 pm yesterday?
    Him: Was fucking a girl in Austria.

    I put up with this kind of conversations…….

  40. Laura

    W Mark – thank you very much for your feedback.

    Well, I guess I repeat the 36 hours thing because it hurts me badly to see that that is all he offered me. You mention that there was no idealization stage because he didn’t see something he wanted badly enough, but then why did he keep going for 6 months? He first visited me in April. I guess, he could have ended it there and then. After he met me that time he wanted to see me again so the very next day we arranged I would go to him, which I did in 6 weeks’ time. Just weeks before I flew to him is when he started with nasty behaviour, i.e. hanging up on me while we talked on Skype, giving me time limits to talk, telling me that he gave me 4 minutes to talk and at minute 3.30 hanging up on me and saying that it seemed I was really bad at managing the little time he gave me and on and on and on……….

    This thing lasted till 3 weeks ago when he blocked me. Well, he has blocked me in the past too but before it was only for a week. Now, it is already 3 weeks. I have no clue if this time will be for good and that is creating so much anxiety.

    You say this guy could kill me if he got annoyed. And that is something I have been really thinking about. Right, we met 3 times. First time was great although I could always see him as someone cold. Second time I saw more things I didn’t like such as walking away from me at the airport because he was annoyed that I wanted him to stay with me till I crossed the gate. He stayed with me for 10 minutes, looked at my face in such a cold way and told me it was over and he walked away without looking back. Then we got back talking. This 3rd time (4 weeks ago) I couldn’t believe he told me he would have to beat me in order for me to understand just because when I touched him with a packet of tissues I couldn’t understand what was happening as he was angry saying that he is sensitive to noise. I always wondered if his threaten to beat me was just a threat to test me or whether he could have become violent in reality. There was also another thing and on Saturday night I felt he grabbed me in a rough way. I told him to stop and told him he was hurting me and he had sex with me. The next morning he suddenly, out of the blue, said that my brother in law (who had called him months before to tell him that his behaviour with me was unacceptable) accused him of raping women. My brother in law had never told him that and this guy was bringing up this topic in a strange way only after the night before I wasn’t especially comfortable with him.

    Many times when I asked him where he was because he wasn’t respoding to my messages, he would blatantly write whatsapp messages saying that he was having sex with a woman, or that he had driven 2 hours to have sex with someone or even when I was visiting him he told me in my face that he had sex with a woman days before me and the weekend before……….why the hell did he tell me these things for?

    At the start of my chats with him he told me he is hostile, impatient, insatiable, disrespectful, a sex addict, an online game addict…..then he told me how 10 years ago he had proposed marriage to a girl he didn’t even know apparently and that her family refused. He said back then he only wanted one girlfriend in his life and that he knew that if he couldn’t be with her he would die. Then he went onto say that since them all he wants is to forget himself, that he didn’t want happiness and that he is sad for a reason. That he sleeps with married women so that they can save their marriages and that he is but an empty soul. that he is insatiable, that nothing can satisfy him and that the nice guy died.

    Why in any case would he tell me all these things about himself if he was trying to trap me??? which normal person goes presenting themselves like this when they want to get someone’s attention? That does not make sense. After all he did want something out of me, otherwise he wouldn’t have been there at all, even if it was just sex.

    And why are you so sure he does not love the GF if he apparently is quite considerate with her? and after nearly 1 year (although it is a long distance relationship) he is still with her. Something that never made sense to me either is how he always talks negatively about their relationship. He says they break up all the time, they fight, that they have different expectations, that she is simple minded, that she is too stupid to get a visa and job in his country, that she wants to marry and he doesn’t….so I always asked him why is he with her????

  41. Realistic

    Look, Laura. You think the GF doesn’t know, that she’s being treated much better? I WAS the GF. I knew. My gut told me something wasn’t write and I WAS brainwashed. I believed I was “special” that I was “different” because he told me about his past – his cheating. I thought his honesty meant he loved me he was serious but then he’d disappear and the cycle began. You spend so much of your time trying to rationalise their actions, to understand why they do it – why he can’t love you. You drive yourself crazy. I stopped listening to my intuition and we were long distance – he had girls online, on his Skype, he was addicted to chat sites but he assured me “I’d never cheat on you.” I had proof, people would tell me but he’d lie and lie and lie until I felt I was crazy and I ME I would apologise to him for accusing him!?

    That time was the most horrible for my mind, I didn’t trust myself I thought he was my world but truth was – he never loved me. He probably loved how easy I was – oh and he told me I was easy, followed by a “joke”.

    I think you’re too focused on him and I don’t think you want to warn his GF in all honesty. I think that’s an excuse so he has a reason to talk to you, to come back to you. He doesn’t love his GF but she’s his primary source and has probably put up with years of his bs.

    I still have moments where I think he loved me and I messed up by walking away – but I didn’t. Each silent treatment, disappearing act was him cheating or focusing in on another girl.

    Will he come back to me? I finally after NC, which he used probably to spend more time with the girl he was grooming, told him to leave me alone after he decided he didn’t want to be with me anymore.

    Did he? Yes. But will he forever? I still worry and think “this is it I screwed up” but my friends my support network remind me how I’m ridding myself off the toxicity. Do I love him? Yes and no. I love the man I THOUGHT he was which was just all my qualities.

    He doesn’t love his GF and you’re lucky you’re not her because it’s like you’re drowning and nobody can save you except you. You want HIM to save you but why would he? Why would he reverse all the damage he has caused?

    They always come back but the silence is when you learn to love yourself and realise that you deserve so much more.

    1. Laura

      Realistic – I am sorry about your story and thanks for replying.

      I know how many people say “I was the GF” and then you know but every case is different. The reason why I think he must be really interested in her is because obviously, I see the differences. He spent with me maximum 36 hours each time we met. One of the times he even had 4 days off in a row. He still chose to see me 36 hours. He spends his holidays with her (between 1 and 2 weeks at a time).

      The reason he spends that little time with me, among other things, is because is she calls him and he is not there she gets suspicious. So, say they speak during the weekend at a certain time and when he is with me he is away from computer and phone so she gets suspicious if he doesn’t call or respond. Even the last time I was with him he said I created trouble for him (sure this was because the gf was looking for him and he wasn’t answering). I saw her number calling on his phone at home and he didn’t answer because he is with me. Also, a couple of times when I was talking to him on Skype she called and he told me he had to take the other person’s call so he finished the call with me to get the other one. I mean I see all these clear differences, so how can I go and say that he doesn’t love her? He met her for the first time last October (she is in another continent) and they met 3 times.

      Despite him saying all the time that they break up and fight all the time and that she wants to get married and he doesn’t and that they have different expectations and he says she is simple minded and too stupid to get a job and visa to go to his country, etc….the bottom line is that he is with her. If things are so negative, as I asked him before, why is he still with her? sustaining a long distance relationship and all the work that implies?? Right, the very one thing and which is obviously a problem is that he cheats on her all the time. He met her in December and in January he flew to a stranger to have sex and then the gf visited him in March and he had started talking to me in February and flew to me in April. The minute the gf left after visiting him he was talking to me again.

      But of course, in my eyes he treats her much better. I can see the difference of what he does with her and what he does with me. He doesn’t tell her all the women he sleeps with but he told me constantly if he was with one woman or another. Why?? He said he doesn’t tell her and doesn’t want her to ever know because he doesn’t want to hurt her.

      So how do I know he doesn’t love her?

    2. Laura

      Also, in reply to what you said about me warning the gf, that is not an excuse at all so that he comes back to me. I can’t warn her because I saw her number when she called him but some digits were missing on the screen (I think because the number was too long to fit in the screen) so basically I can’t contact her, I have no way. If I had the number, email address or anything I would definitely contact her and that would have absolutely nothing got to do with him talking to me. In fact, if I did that I know he would never talk to me again.

      Actually, nearly 3 weeks ago he blocked me because I told him I wasn’t ever going to fly again to someone who accuses me of beating me so after that he blocked me. Then I was angry and told him I was going to contact his gf and I have the feeling he never unblocked me probably because I threatened him with contacting the gf. In the past he blocked me too but then he unblocked me. However, now I am blocked and I think it will be forever and as I said, I suspect it is because of me threatening with telling his gf.

      1. Laura, my heart goes out to you, i am sorry you are going through this. i believe what you are doing is RUMINATING. Over and aver in your head you are obsessed with this pathetic piece of shit who has treated you terribly since day 1. He is not logical nor rational and you are trying to figure him out as if he were normal. They do what they do because they are crazy, it will never make sense to us, and you will never get the closure you so desperately seek.

        I am gay male and I am the other girl. My N claimed to be straight and I was his HUGE secret. He was literally terrified someone would find out about his boyfriend. 6 years later i find out he has a craigs list ad in the men seeking men section, and hooks up with multiple strangers for anonymous sex DAILY.

        you seem shocked that your shithead was with you one day and a month later he is with gf. Let me tell you honey, he can easily have sex with you in the morning, gf at lunch, total stranger at 5pm, and you again before he goes to sleep – and i would guarantee this type of thing has ALREADY HAPPENED. oh and he also masterbated a couple of times.

        i read all these posts and i am worried about you. do you realize how many times you wrote, ” he spends 36 hours with me and 2 weeks with her” ??? about 100 Girl, i’m sorry if this hurts, but he is just not that into you. You didnt have an idealization stage because he didnt see anything in you he wanted badly enough. And another thing – he DOES NOT love you NOR the GF and NEVER Did and NEVER WILL.

        HE Does not have the capability to love anyone, not even himself.

        There is nothing to figure out about him, what you see and hear is all there is. If you look deep inside him, trying to find answers, you will find nothingness, there is nothing there, he is just a hollow, souless, shell of a human being. they were created for exactly one purpose and given gifts and tools for that purpose – to cause a wake of utter destruction and damage and death to good people everywhere. They are EVIL.

        You simply do not realize what these people are capable of. YOUR LIFE IS IN DANGER when you are near him. He has already threatened to beat you – He could kill you just because you annoy him. People falsely believe they know their psychopath because they have been married to him for 10-20 years – nothing could be further from the truth. anything he tells you or you discover about him snooping in his phone and email is just the TIP of the iceberg.

        So sweetheart, please do not agree to see him again when he calls. Change your phone number, skype and whatsapp, and thank the lord you got away with minimal damage. I just have a gut feeling if he sees you again, he will take his revenge and rage on you physically.

  42. Amanda

    i though I was crazy until I found this post. My husband of 2 years will put me on a silent “time out”. I have an anxiety disorder and some health issues. If he can tell I am anxious he will refuse to speak to me until I act normal. If I talk too fast or don’t annunciation right he will ignore me. For hours. He will add up the the time of his I wasted telling a boring story and use that for the time I am not allowed to speak the next day. It’s making my anxiety and physical health worse. I try to speak correctly and not annoy him. I need help

    1. Kim Saeed

      Amanda, I am sorry to know your husband is doing this to you. It is cruel and inhumane emotional abuse. Are you in any type of therapy and/or have you thought about separation?

  43. Laura

    Jen – These are some of the comments he made:

    2 months ago when he unblocked me he told me: “aren’t you happy you are able to talk to me again?” His comments were all the time like this:
    “appreciate it that I call you”,
    “if I give you a finger don’t take my arm”,
    “I will call you when I want to”,
    “you can ask questions but I can choose not to reply”,
    “can you stop undermining my authority?”,
    “no one entitles you to know my future steps except me and if you have issues with accepting that you force me to break it to you the hard way”
    “Will you change? I had very little patience with you before. Now, I have none left. Anything goes wrong, any back talk and it is over!!!”
    He asked me several times if I am addicted to him just when I wanted to talk to him
    Another time after I sent him a few messages and he didn’t answer, he told me that he felt I wanted his attention and that then he called me because he felt pity
    So many times he hung up on me. He one day counted 3, 2, 1 and hung up. He would ask me: “how many minutes do you want to talk to me today?”
    He asked me if I know the cat and mouse game

    1. Jen

      Yeah not really sure why you’re obsessing over someone who talks to you like that. That is utterly disrespectful and despicable. I want love and respect. Not a rude, controlling d-bag

      1. Laura

        No Jen, it is not why he doesn’t talk to me. I just wanted to have a last talk where at least he says why he blocked me or if he doesn’t want it anymore, where I could also say my point of view. That is all I wanted. That at least I don’t have to remember this as someone who disappeared just by blocking me

      2. Laura

        Jen – I also think that he has talked to me so much in the way I said that although I know it is not right I think I have become used to it as if in a way I don’t feel so shocked by it anymore. I really think I have become used to it. It is like I have accepted he is like that and it doesn’t surprise me anymore…….I feel depressed and I myself don’t understand why I tolerated it.

  44. Laura


    You said:

    “Abusers don’t pick and choose the people they abuse, they abuse everyone they are in an intimate relationship with. Someone with a PD doesn’t decide to be a dick to one girl and cheat and be good to another, they do it to ALL of them, as he’s doing to you.”

    Yes, you are probably right. I am sure you know much more than I do about all this. I don’t know what abusers do because I haven’t dealt with one till now. I have no idea if they abuse everyone or only the ones they decide to abuse. I have no idea if they could be really nice to some and really jerks to others. When I doubt about this is because I see the differences between the way he treated me and the way he treats the gf so of course, then I think he is much better with her.

    I got to meet him 3 times. Each of those times were for 36 hours or less. He meets her for 1 or 2 weeks, he uses his holidays at work to meet her and he is always always there to talk to her in case she suspects something about his whereabouts. He wasn’t like that with me. He doesn’t tell her a word about his multiple women because he literally said he doesn’t want to hurt her. On the other hand, even when he doesn’t need to tell me because I would never find out anyway, he does tell me the women he sleeps with (I think with the only aim to hurt me). So there are clear differences in the way he treats me and treats her. How can I then believe he is abusive with all of us?

    Sorry, it is not that I am in denial. It is that a) I don’t know if he is a Psychopath and b) don’t know how these people operate and c) I see differences in the way he treats different people being me the one overtly abused.

    1. Jen

      Oh my gosh, who cares if he’s a psychopath or not? He treats you like absolute garbage!!!! Stop trying to figure out why he’s doing what he’s doing. Move on with your life. You’ve seen him 3 times. You hardly know him. He’s not worth it.

    2. Veronykah

      Not sure why you care how he treats anyone else? He treats you badly and hardly knows you. Even if you were able to see him again or more, it will only get worse.
      Forget about him. Forget about closure or “one last talk” it’s not going to happen the way you want, even if you do speak to him again. I can guarantee that. Realize you aren’t going to get what you want. He’s not going to suddenly unblock you and have a rational conversation about why he did it that will make you feel better.
      You are chasing an illusion. Decide you’re done and close this book. Seriously.

  45. Laura

    Veronykah, I am just having difficulty in figuring out what he is. First of all, this is all very recent. I feel my head is spinning. I don’t know what is going on really. It has come to a point that my head know something is wrong and my heart says something else. I can’t see with clarity. In addition, I have read quite a lot about Psychopaths and Narcissist abuse but sometimes I feel the more I read the more confused I get. There are things that fit and others don’t and then I get more confused.

    In every article I have read it is clearly stated how these people go through 3 phases – idealization, devalue and discard. In my case, there was no idealization as such apart from the time he came over to meet me. He didn’t really love bombed me like every one seems to describe. Mine was being hostile from very early.

    That is why I suppose people from the outside can see much clearer than me. People also talk about how these people always come back. Mine is not. He blocked me 2 weeks ago with no previous warning. I have asked him endless times to at least give me a reason as to why he did and told him that if this is it there is no problem with me but that at least he tells me. We have talked for 6 months and met 3 times and told him that clicking on a block button is so mean. I just wanted a reason why. He didn’t reply and I am sure he won’t.

    So basically, I am lost.

    1. With all due respect Laura, your efforts may be much better spent in trying to figure out yourself and why you are having such difficulty letting this person go. I wish you the best in your troubles…

      1. Laura

        Sandy – I don’t know. I have asked myself 100 times and I don’t know the answer

  46. Kris

    Been struggling and suffering for 7 long years with someone who I assume to be a narc.
    When we first started seeing each other, he would ignore me for days or weeks at a time. I used to bombard him with texts, begging for an explanation. Of course that didn’t bring him back until he was good and ready and usually he would half heartedly blame his absence on being busy or tired.
    After all these years, that behaviour has subsided a lot. He doesn’t simply vanish at random anymore.
    However, he’s extremely selfish, self centred and can’t take any criticism.
    Often I am left completely and utterly bewildered by his reactions to something I say. He has called me a selfish cunt when I attempted to politely decline his demand of writing him a dirty text. I had been going through a hard time and was not in the mood to talk dirty to him as he often requests. It is rarely natural for me to do and I simply force myself in order to please him so he doesn’t get mad. But on this occasion I perhaps gave him too much credit, assumed he would be understanding. And told him I wasn’t feeling well and wasn’t in a dirty mood. I told him I’m a person too. And he needs to understand that. Well, Lordy Lordy! The words he had for me. Followed by the ignoring. Followed by me apologizing and him accepting, but saying I’m lucky he’s talking to me again.
    Shoot ahead a few months to now. He often blows me off if I’m talking too much, as he sees it. With a fake smile and a nod. Or if I text him what he deams to be a long story, he will reply with a kiss emoticon and nothing else. I’m not an idiot. I know it means he either didn’t read it or doesn’t care.
    So this time I made the mistake of expressing my anger. He asked what he did now… As if to say I’m constantly mad at him. Which I’m not. I told him very kindly, that when he blows me off or ignores me , it makes me feel bad.
    Normal person would apologize? Him? Silence. Crickets. I fucking despise this person for all the pain he puts me through. But I can’t seem to ever move on and go without him. When I hear his personalized text tone, I feel instantly happier. I know I’m addicted. I can’t help myself.

  47. Jen

    Look how you’re obssessing over someone you met three times.

    1. Laura

      He hasn’t brainwashed me at all. I wouldn’t want to be his gf. What hurts me badly is his disrespect and how he blocks me like that out of the blue.

      The situation is very different. He did tell me he had a gf (although it didn’t sound very believable). He tells me about the women he sleeps with. Actually, I think I know lots about his real self, something the gf does not. He is not careful about me not finding out who he sleeps with, in fact he tells me in my face. On the other hand, he always makes sure the gf doesn’t find out. There is a huge difference. I know him much better than the gf does. If I was going to be with him I know what I would be getting into. She doesn’t.

      I am not obsessing about being with him. I know that will be impossible. I obsess at the way he is behaving because anyone despite of the label you carry, i.e. gf, friend, whatever deserves respect, especially when I have always been nice to him.

      1. Laura

        I never ever defended him in any way. I do know he is a cheater and for that very reason I wouldn’t be able to be with him ever. What I can’t understand is someone I spent 6 months talking to and I have met 3 times can be so nasty to me for no reason, that is all.

        Veronykah said that she had it shitty before the cheating and afterwards too, but that doesn’t have to be the case here too with the gf. It may be that the only way in which he is being nasty to her (and of course, I am convinced she doesn’t know) is in that he is cheating on her. Otherwise, he might be nice to her. It doesn’t necessarily have to be the case that he is being an asshole with her too (apart from the cheating part). I doubt it very much he goes blocking her and when she calls he is there to answer and when he is with me or others he only offers short amounts of time so that the gf doesn’t get suspicious. It looks like to me that he is anything but apparently nice to her.

      2. Laura

        As I said before he blocked me last week on whatasapp and Skype. Unable to stop the contact as I would still like an explanation as to why he blocked me, I sent him some messages on whatsapp from another mobile number (as my own is blocked by him). He read them all. He didn’t answer to anything but I am surprised he hasn’t blocked that number. I really thought he would since I am blocked everywhere else……

    2. Laura

      Yes, I admit I am obsessed. All I said to Verornykah is that my guy and your guy don’t have to be the same and the fact that you were the gf in that situation does not mean my guy’s gf has to be going through the exact same thing you did or or being treated the exact same way you were or have it as bad as you did. It doesn’t have to be the same story.

      I am still badly affected and haven’t got over it of course, that is why I am in the process of wondering, doubting everything. I wish I could just switch off the button and not care but if that was the case I would have never been with him in the first place and I wouldn’t be here either. It was only last week he disappeared. I need time. However, I do know he is an abuser (with me) as I cannot judge what he is with other, I can only guess and I do know I have to go no contact. Knowing in your mind what you have to do is one thing, being able to do it because your heart interferes is another.

      I am not arguing. I am just explaining what comes through my head and I am just saying that stories are not identical and nor are the motives or other things.

      1. Veronykah

        Of course the stories and experiences are not identical but spend enough time on boards like this and the stunning similarities between what they do and even SAY will make your head spin.
        My ex was BPD (all BPD are narcissists but all narcissists aren’t BPD?) and I am in a group with other people, men and women who have been in relationships with BPDs and they all act pretty similarly. Which is also the case with NPD and ALL personality disorders so to make assumptions about his behavior based on the assumption that he is in fact NPD is not as far out as you seem to think it is.
        I was with someone with a PD for 3 years, I’ve been in communities and done my own therapy and read enough books over this time to make the comments I’ve made. I’m not assuming and saying these things with no facts and info to back it up.
        PDs all follow similar play books, if they didn’t they wouldn’t fit the criteria and therefore wouldn’t have a PD.
        Do some research, READ about NPD and you’ll likely find yourself nodding your head in agreement. Unless of course, you were never involved enough with this person to know or get to see these behaviors in person.

        1. You’re right, Veronykah. I’m actually beginning to believe the creeps study sites like this in order to perfect their evil schemes. I really think it is more than simple coincidence that so many do and say the exact same things in victimizing others!

  48. Jen

    There is no part of him that respects her. Bc people who love other people RESPECT them and do anything in their power not to hurt them

    1. Laura

      No, of course I wouldn’t want to be his gf ever,of course not, knowing what I know. Yes, he cheated on her with me and with many others but he is not hurting her because he makes really sure she doesn’t know. That is why he only spent 36 hours with me, i.e. so that she doesn’t suspect if he is gone absent for too long

      She is not hurt from the moment she knows nothing about what he does. It is the same as he said once: that he knows she is far away and that she can have sex with others every day as long as he doesn’t know about it.

      And narcissists are jerks, yes but there are many jerks who are not narcissists or psychopaths.

      1. Veronykah

        First, you are assuming she doesn’t know. Which you don’t know.
        Second you are assuming she can’t be hurt?
        Mine was a cheater and when the women (who knows how many there were) he had been cheating with told ME it was devastating.
        So the idea that he is not hurting her? Yeah, so wrong. SO WRONG.
        I’m not sure anyone has ever hurt me more than he did when I found that out as I NEVER thought he was that guy.
        She probably has some idea somewhere but doesn’t want to acknowledge it honestly.
        That fact that you don’t seem to care about her I find to be more troubling. Just because he is an asshole to her doesn’t mean you need to be part of the abuse. Have respect for yourself and the other woman and get away from him.
        Just because he lacks integrity doesn’t mean you have to and also doesn’t mean you aren’t doing something wrong.
        I blame my ex for the cheating but the girl doesn’t get away with it just because she wasn’t MY gf, she KNEW about me and to me that is pretty shitty too.
        I told her they can have each other, they both deserve to be with cheaters.

        1. Jen

          My ex narcs new girl, who he started seeing while we were together is in denial. As soon as I found out about her, I confronted her…showed her screenshots of his texts and picturrs sent to me, bc she had no clue. She told me I’m miserable and jealous and I need to move on bc he’s never cheated with her…even tho he did…repeatedly. she saw physical proof and still calls me a liar. shes seriously under some spell bc he made her block me so i can’t sent further evidence. Brainwashed. She has no idea how deep she’s in.

        2. Jen

          He told me he loves her and I need to leave him alone even tho he was confessing undying love two days before to me. I said ok, I’m not one to fight over a dude and I don’t disrespect other women like that…no matter how dumb they act. I was shocked bc I didn’t think he was like that either. But three girls at once…and this new one thinks she hit the lotto. It’s sad.

      2. Laura

        I am assuming she doesn’t know because if she did know with how many he sleeps I doubt it she would be there wanting to marry him.

        I never said she cannot be hurt. What I said is that if she doesn’t know what is going on of course, she is not hurt YET because she has no idea. So what you don’t see doesn’t hurt you. He cannot hurt her unless she does know what is happening.

        I don’t understand when you say I don’t care about her. If I had her number, I would tell her not about me but about what he does. This girl is in another continent. Knowing what he does is close to impossible, especially when he makes sure he is always there to talk to her so that she doesn’t suspect.

      3. Veronykah

        If you are sleeping with and having a relationship with someone who is in a relationship with someone else, then you are part of the problem. Period. If you didn’t KNOW that’s one thing. But you do know and you call her his girlfriend.
        That is not caring, saying you’d call her to let her know he’s sleeping with you and a million other girls? Not really a favor honestly.
        If he’s this much of a dick, he’s being a dick to her too, believe me. Mine was shitty before he cheated and shitty after.
        I was pissed when I found out, we broke up, I HATED him. But the trauma bonding and hoovering was strong and I took him back.
        If you’ve been tortured by this guy (either of you) believe that the girlfriend has had it 10000x worse. She IS brainwashed. That’s what they DO.
        Feel bad for her and get the F away from him. She can learn her lesson on her own. You don’t need to add to the misery by being with him too.
        The mean things he did to me were awful but nothing like the pain of finding out about his cheating. That was the worst. I didn’t need to see the photos, I didn’t need to get her email. I really didn’t.
        Not enabling cheaters is something you can do.
        That part is 100% your responsibility. I don’t see how you can see your part in that as anything but wrong.

        1. Jen

          I had no clue. We started dating in August last year. I found out about her last week. Saw pictures of them back to December. I don’t think she had a clue. I let her know he’s slimey bc he got it past me. I told him peace out…he can have her if she’s dumb enough to be with a cheater

        2. Jen

          Veronykah, how’d you find out he was cheating? P.s. my dad passed in May and was sick before I met him in august so I was already vulnerable and maybe that’s how he got it past me. Plus I was brainwashed bc another girl wrote to me and told me he was cheating. I saw her screenshots yet I still doubted she was telling the truth even tho I had evidence bc he was justifying and lying thru evidence. That lasted a few days til she told me about another girl he was screwing with that she knew about…his current gf. There were three of us…I came first. Ugh

      4. Veronykah

        First, does it matter if she is or not?
        Second, the only way to stay with an abuser is to be brainwashed. Really. You have to buy their bullshit and their stories and their lies to be able to deal with the things they do and the way they treat you.
        I’ve BEEN there. I was in a relationship with an abuser for 3 years. I was brainwashed by his “so nice” side, he was so caring and sensitive and treated me so great, except when he didn’t. There were signs he was cheating, I’m sure now. But I was so deep in it that I didn’t want to see them and when I asked him where he’d go when he’d disappear and give me the silent treatment for a week or more he always had a good excuse, as I’m sure this dude does. She believes him because she WANTS to. She HAS to to maintain the relationship.
        Mine ex lived a 40 min drive from my house (on a good day) having a double life, doing weird stuff but always having an excuse, being secretive about his phone, there are signs. She may not know he is cheating, she may believe him but I am almost positive if she’s been with him for any length of time she’s got suspicions.
        Do some research on NPD and BPD…there are so many tactics abusers use to keep you in check.
        Oh look, mine JUST left me a VM. 7 months of NC and a voicemail.

      5. Veronykah

        Thanks Jen. After 3 years in hell with my ex getting out was the best thinking ever, I’m so happy now. I was always strong, I just let myself be vulnerable with him, big mistake.
        How’s he taking to no contact?
        I just figured out how to block him from google voice this afternoon because after 7 months of NOT A WORD from me, he is still calling me. He called as I was posting here today!
        He sent me a bunch of letters in the mail, emails, phone calls, comments on my instagram pics, text messages. He even showed up at my apt about a month ago asking if I wanted “to talk”. Uh, no.
        He gave me a bag with toys for my dogs, candy and a collage of ticket stubs/pics etc from when we were together saying “thru thick and thin…I will always love you” or some shit.
        Short version, he’s not taking it at all. He still seems to think we have something to talk about or he can still waltz back into my life again like he did all the other times.
        Too bad for him he’s WRONG. I’m so done.

        1. Jen

          Hahaha that is so awesome. Wish I was that strong. Wishe I never could tasted his gf and just let him go when I found out, no contact. But I fed into it and played his game and wrote to her. Pretty sure it made him hate me tho. And I think he won’t get any urges to write to me bc he holds grudges and is stubborn

    2. Laura

      and I wonder, if she goes to his country and live with him, how is he going to be able to keep cheating on her? that won’t be possible anymore. I wonder if he only cheats on her because she is far away. He once said that he needs sex every day (being a sex addict as he said)

      1. Laura

        Well, if I had a way to contact her I would, not in a bad way, but just to warn her. From there on it would be her choice but at least I would try to save her from this guy. I saw her number on his phone when I was with him. He was in the bathroom at the time. I tried to memorize it but even like that I am sure there were some digits missing as it was an international number and I have the feeling it didn’t fit all on the screen. I wish I could contact her. At least it would be revenge for me towards him too.

      2. Laura

        So, is it better she lives in fairy land? not knowing what is going on?? This case may be different because as I said she lives far away so much more difficult to find out for her that he is cheating.
        Really, if he is so much worse to her, why would she be there? and wanting to marry???

        When I met this guy I even thought this gf didn’t even exist. I thought he had made it up so that I wouldn’t get too attached to him as he only wanted an affair. The way he talked about her (even if she existed) I thought at any moment they would break up. I have never ever been the type of person who would get involved with someone who is taken, never!!!! but I really didn’t feel this guy was taken in any shape or form.

        What makes you think that the gf has had it X10000 times worse? I can’t believe she would be there, especially sustaining a long distance relationship when they haven’t even seen each other since March if she has had it that bad.

        1. Jen

          Laura, she is brainwashed. Take it from me. My narc lied thru proof I was seeing with my eyes and I believed him. I told this new girl about him and I AND the other one and she told me to leave her alone and she assured me they are very happy together and he did not cheat…even though he slept with me at least three times in two months when him and I weren’t getting along well but we’re trying to work it out when my dad was dying…having no clue about these girls. Conot acting her is a waste of your time bc she won’t believe you and he won’t care. If he loses her he will move on to someone else.

      3. Laura

        You say she has to be brainwashed to be with an abuser. But how do I know he is an abuser with her? All I can say is he is an abuser with me. There is no way I can judge he is an abuser with her. He travelled to her country twice. She visited him once in his country and as far as I know they met each other’s families. Why do I have to assume he is an abuser with her? All I know for sure is that he is cheating on her but no clue if she abuses her. Maybe he abuse me because he knew he didn’t want anything out of the thing with me, however he seems to be very interested in keeping it going with her.

        I always thought if he really wanted to spend more time with me he could have done so by her leaving in another country. Can’t she not tell her he is going for a few days away? or what? is he meant to be locked in a house and not allowed to go away for more than 36 hours just because he has a gf??? He could have easily said he is going away with friends or whatever. She is in another country anyway, why is he meant to be a prisoner in his house to talk to her? and if he chooses not to go away for more than 36 hours there must be a reason. Too much consideration for a gf he abuses….

      4. Veronykah

        Why do I think she has it worse? Because I’ve BEEN the girlfriend.
        Why is she there? Read up on NPD and how they groom you. Do you know the extent of their relationship? Do you know what they talk about? How they met? How long they’ve been together or how much?
        No, you know what HE tells you which I’m sorry to say is probably mostly lies. Truth ain’t their strong suit.
        Abusers don’t pick and choose the people they abuse, they abuse everyone they are in an intimate relationship with. Someone with a PD doesn’t decide to be a dick to one girl and cheat and be good to another, they do it to ALL of them, as he’s doing to you.
        If you don’t think you are brainwashed simply because you don’t want to be his gf you are mistaken. You are here, you are thinking about him, wondering and caring WHY. If you weren’t being played by him you wouldn’t give a shit. You’d have walked and not looked back, knowing what garbage he clearly is.
        But you are obsessing over a guy you don’t even know, that is brainwashing my friend.
        My first BF was also a narc and I knew about ALL the girls he was sleeping with too, because we weren’t “in a relastionship” even though we lived together and slept together most of the time. I thought it was ok because I knew about all of them and they didn’t know about me. We were best friends! I knew him better than anyone! Guess what? He was still an abusive jerk to me. He still hooked me into his fucked up world and made me think I was in control and it was all good. I was not. Anyone who makes you feel like shit, like you can’t say what you want to say about what they do or do things that continually hurt you and don’t care, they are an abuser.
        You are in denial.

        1. Jen

          Veronykah is right on. I love how strong you are. How long did your ex take to contact you after you left him and initiated no contact?

          1. Veronykah

            I think it was 3 months on the dot that I got a package from him. The it all started, phone calls, texts, etc. Hasn’t let up much since then, so it’s been going on and on for 4 months. Guess whatever he was up to for those 3 months was done with him. lol

          2. Jen

            Haha. This loser claims to be so happy. I hope he is. So he won’t try to Come back. Bc thats when I get weak. He was always disappearing and coming back every single week confessing his love, begging me to talk. I gave in til I found out how slimey he is, cheating with two other females and I came first…ugh. Now that I see how terrible he is and thrives on attention, I won’t give it to him.

      5. Cecilia


        You are asking how he will continue with his lifestyle after he’s in the same country as his GF (potentially future wife)?

        I am just exiting a relationship with a narc who is married, 2 kids. He lives in my state, travels extensively for work. He always manages to have relationships “supply” outside his home relationship. He covers his tracks neatly, selects his outside partners carefully, and is extra careful never to expose his wife to any whiff of his extracurricular activities. As for how he manages it? Well, it is masterful. He has a specific app he uses to communicate, he limits textual communication, no screenshots are allowed because the app will alert him. He meets women all the time in his industry, so he is constantly culling, selecting and grooming his next sleeping partners. He watched me and admired me for 2 years prior to our involvement. He had guys who were his confidantes reporting back to him on me and my interests so he could easily talk with me when we did see each other. Once we finally got together ( which shamefully was me initiating — I am also married), he began with his TRUE self– which is very hollow. He proclaims that he “has it really good” at home, has another ex ( maybe still involved?) gf that is a married lesbian who quite possibly gave birth to his child earlier this year. He is cultivating new relationships in the state he works in. Has started the grooming with several women there– all visible on his social networks. Unless you’ve been there, one wouldn’t know that he is grooming these ladies, but I recognize it.

        Fact is, these men never stop. This guy just had a baby outside his marriage, and he was still messing around. ( shamefully – without protection with me!)

        What kind of narcissist is that?! He has a huge ego, feels like he us rich and powerful enough that nothing can touch him. I will never say anything to his wife or in our mutual community because I don’t want to be the one to hurt her. He already does that himself. And… The debt collector will come once his baby boy comes to right age and seeks him out. His wife will then have wasted all her life with him ( she’s 41 now– imagine when the kid us 18 and hungry to find his biological dad– that’s a secret that will come out!
        This narc was so certain and yet hollow that he decided a huge prize and gift to his ego was to “turn” a lesbian. Which is what he was doing with his other GF when she got pregnant. Turns out she was Bi, was very in love with him, but he pushed her away despite the fact she was having his baby.

        See what kinds of messes these people create? If you aren’t married to one, or even if you are, you need to RUN now!! It’s not worth it.

    3. Veronykah

      Jen, the other girl found my email somehow and sent me an email telling me how sick she was of him breaking up with me to be with her then breaking up with her to go back to me. This was after I visited him at work and she must have seen us together, as she works at the same place apparently.
      I had NEVER heard of her before this. She kept claiming it so I said show me some proof, she sent emails and photos. It destroyed me.
      I made him come over and had the pics on my computer when I confronted him and he still tried to lie his way out of it.
      I punched him in the face a few times and kicked some dents in his truck during the ensuing confrontation. Broke up with him and told her she could have him too. Then he kept trying to come back, stalker like. Apologizing, leaving notes on my car, flowers, emails, blah blah blah.
      I was so deep in I took him back. I think that’s when I made him start individual therapy and he seemed to be doing better. But eventually he started with the same shit again, how he was unhappy and needed to see his son and all sort of dumb stuff I heard a million times before he would break up with me. He broke up with me for that last time in February. I gave him his stuff, cried about 8 tears and for whatever reason I was finally done.
      I don’t miss him and don’t care about him anymore. He’s been trying to get me back since. I’ve gone no contact 100% and it feels SO good.
      Anytime I’ve even felt a little anything for him I think back to how awful I felt that day I found out about who he REALLY was and I have no desire to see his face ever again.
      Good riddance. I hope she is with him. She deserves it.

      1. Jen

        Yeah. He’s been stalking my social media since we split before my dad died. But kept saying he wanted to work on us. Sent me flowers, begged to come to my dads funeral. He admitted he’s been stalking my stuff. He knows who i was talking to and what i did, when. Tbru social media. our contacts became less and less but be wouldnt let me go. Came back every week near the end saying he loves me and wants me back. My dad died and I was vulnerable so I stuck around. Til I did sone snooping after talking to the first girl and said woah…he had you too? What about this other girl I saw on his instagram when he was trying to get back with me. I was furious. Livid. Confronted him about the first giel and as I said, lied and lied. I found out about the second girl weeks later when I found an actual name but at first denied her when I had no physical proof. Told her and she didn’t listen. They deserve each other. Sorry for your ex. I will never go back to this day bag. He hates me for telling on him. I think he’s gone for good bc I pissed him off beyond recognition.

      2. Laura

        I am not sure why you keep insisting she is brainwashed. Yes, maybe she is but when you are in another country the chances that you don’t know what is going on behind your back are huge. Sometimes you don’t even know when they are in the same city as it has happened to both of you. Why would she know what he does if she leaves miles away????

        1. Jen

          You live in a different country and are clearly brainwashed too. You keep defending him even though you know he’s a scumbag. He brainwashed you to cling to him. It’s inadvertent and subconscious and he’s got u hooked

      3. Laura

        I am not in denial. I know he is an abuser but all I can say is that he is an abuser with me. I cannot judge what he does with others unless I see it for myself.

        You say the gf has it worse because you have been the gf but whatever happened in your relationship doesn’t necessarily have to be the same that is happening in this one. Your guy could have had other motives, different to my guy’s motives, I don’t know. Not everything has to be the same.

        I don’t know what they talk about, except that he told me that she wants to get married so that she can move to his country with him and he doesn’t and that they have different expectations, and that there is disrespect, and that she is simple minded and too stupid to get a visa and a job in his country and that if they live together they will fight the same as they did while on holidays and that they fight all the time and that they break up, etc…..sometimes he has said for example that they haven’t talked in a few days because they break up……I think they met online and he went to meet her for the first time last October. I think they have met in October, December and March, so 3 times….but why would he tell me all those negative things about the relationship? it is not like he ever wanted to make me believe I had any chance with him because he always made it clear he didn’t want to be my bf or have anything with me apart from sex.

        I know I wouldn’t be here if I didn’t care. Thing is I do care about the abuse he carried out but I am not brainwashed in the sense I would want to be with him at any cost. I always knew I would never be with him because I would not be able to be with someone like him ever. I know if I was his gf he would be doing all this to me. The privilege I have is that I do know his real self because he let me see it whereas the gf probably doesn’t know even half of what I know. With her he has to hide it, not with me so I play with advantage in that way. I simply don’t get how these evil people operate, I do not understand their brains and that is why I might be in denial, but in denial of not understanding how people can be so evil, not in denial that he is not an abuser.

        1. Jen

          Laura, you have literally been talking about the same thing over and over and over for the last two days. You ARE obsessed. You met him three times and he clearly doesn’t give a shit about you or anyone he dates. It’s not worth trying to play sleuth and figure out bc you’ll never figure out. Chances he doesn’t even know why he does what he does. And you ask us for advice but counter and argue everyrhing we say. We are trying to help and support you but you argue everything.

          1. Hate to sound cold and heartless toward Laura, but some people thrive on drama and mistreatment, and sadly for her she seems to fit that type. So many times we analyze our situations out to silly extremes, when what we ought to do is sit back and ask ourselves “Is this how I want to be treated in love? Is this what I’m willing to put up with?”
            My black and white thought process gets me in trouble sometimes, but for this stuff it has served me well. It all boils down to inner peace and happiness, in my not-so-humble opinion. Does it feel good? Then stay with it! Does it hurt like hell and cause unending misery? Then get out! Does it hurt like hell, cause unending misery, and you still want to deny the facts and ignore solid advice and hang in there anyway? Good luck with that! Sorry to sound heartless, but sometimes it’s best to read the writing on the wall. And sad but true, those who can’t read it for what it is are those who will suffer longest and most…and no amount of analysis will beat that stone cold fact.

          2. Veronykah

            Exactly. She wanted answers we gave them to her but we’re all wrong. Not sure what she wants from us other than to tell her to continue to try to contact him and that it’ll all work out?
            Good luck with that sister.
            Be happy you only got this far with him.

        2. Jen

          Laura, who cares what he says and does to her? He lives in another country and doesn’t want to be with you and treated you like trash. Id say youre not at a loss. Youre the winner bc youre not dealing with his crap anymore. She is. You cant be the martyr and save her. She will not listen and he will not care. Youre torturing yourself and dragging this out. First, learn how to love and respect yourself so you can move on from the abuse and brainwashing. Go hang out with friends. Go to the gym. Eat yummy food. Visit family. Stop thinking about something that is over and clearly dysfunctional in your life. You should wanot better for yourself. Think about this…if you had a daughter, what would your advice be to her in this case??

  49. Jen

    Further, he’s a pathological liar. Almost everything he’s ever said has been a lie. And he does it with a straight face, no blinking or getting nervous. Immediate responses. I’ve caught him red handed aND he still continues to lie. When I see with my eyes, the truth. So I still call him out and he gets more aggressive and angry and mean as to how could I not believe and and “oh, I’m such a horrible person. I’m this terrible person. Keep playing the victim Jen. You only suspect things and you believe them to be truth.” I’m what? I only believe things I suspect? Yeah I’m looking at physical proof with my eyes that you cheated three times. And I am the victim, you continue to lie when I have proof. You’re sick. He always tried to project or make me feel guilty for calling him out bc he’s “neither a cheater nor a liar and he’s never cheated on anyone in his life.” So when I called him out, he went into defense mode and found all sorts of techniques to divert attention and somehow put it back on me and accuse ME of cheating and being dishonest and a whore, etc. It was all a distraction technique. Normal people admit to cheating and apologize if they really love you. They are compassionate. I caught him several times and he lied and lied until he finally just left after the third girl. In which he was mean and cold hearted after confessing his love to me three days before. That my friends, is a very unhealthy person. His girl thinks she hit the lotto. She has no idea what’s coming her way.

    1. Laura

      I have sent several emails and sms. All I asked in those was for him to talk to me in order to tell me why he blocked me. In the past when he blocked me he told me why at least. He hasn’t replied to a single thing. Now it has been 8 days since he blocked me and something inside tells me this time is for good.

      You say they want positive and negative attention. Well, what I gave him was negative attention if I was calling out his shit, I guess. I have the gut feeling the reason why he keeps me blocked now is because I threatened him with telling his gf, something I had never done before.

      At least I would feel much better if like other times, he told me this is good bye forever. At least, that way I could go forward. Now, all I am thinking of is whether one day he will be back because he has done it before. For me, what is really creating anxiety is the fact that I don’t know if this is for good or not.

      1. Laura

        I just would like to understand what it is that makes the guy I met a psychopath and not just a jerk. This guy didn’t lie to me at all. He did tell me he had a gf, he has blatantly told me the women he sleeps with (and he didn’t need to say cause he could have lied to me as he does with his gf). He hasn’t lied in any way. Maybe I was expecting too much and he just pushed me away.

        1. Jen

          Maybe. Either way he’s a jerk or a narc. And you want neither. Be happy that cancer is gone. Pick up the pieces and move on. Find love and respect for yourself.

      2. Laura

        I am just asking your opinion. Do you see him as a jerk or more as something else? I remember the last time he unblocked me he asked: “aren’t you happy now that you are able to talk to me again?”. I felt so bad. It was like he had allowed me to talk to him and I should be happy, the same way he recently told me “appreciate it that I call you”.

        For me it is not the same if he is a jerk or if he is a psychopath.

        1. Jen

          Why would it be ok if he was a jerk and not a psychopath? He’s treated you like garbage.

      3. Laura

        No, actually I would feel much more relieved if he was a psychopath. At least I would know he is disordered. I would want to know the difference between the typical guys who are jerks and what this one did, that is all.

        1. Jen

          Narcissists are jerks. All of them. And yes I think he’s a narc!! He has serious issues that you will never be able to fix bc chances are he has no clue how messed up he is. You can’t be jealous of the other girl. She got cheated on…with YOU and she’s cluess. Would you rather be in her shoes aND be clueless and made into a fool?

  50. disillusioned

    That weblink is very useful Jen. It is only now nearly 5 months on that I can see the level of maniuplation and control I was living with. I believe him. I loved him. I never thought he would humiliate, lie and and deceive me as he cared about me. Hell, I even believed him when he said he wasn’t physically/biologically made to sleep with more than one woman at a time. Well that is true isnt it – he can’t literally be with two woman at the same time. So he even played on that ‘truth’. I have started to accept the emotional distress and damage I have been living with. I can also see when I re-read messages and emails from him how cold and heartless and controlling he was. He was constantly telling me what to do, what not to feel, how not to behave. And I am an intelligent woman – but I was played mercilessly by this man. And right now I have been intimidated by him and his pregnant new woman (who isn’t new as he was seeing her while seeing me as she is at least 6 months pregnant). So it is hard, it is hurtful and it is only with time, patience and self care and the support of friends and family that I am starting to feel like me again. And people are commenting, that I am smiling more, that I am less docile, more in control, the feisty woman I always was before this man decided to move beyond his 2 year email courtship of ‘friends’ to physical intimacy, the hot and cold, the lies and deceit while I was unwell and frankly not fit to understand what he was saying and doing and then complete and utter humiliating discard. And then the complete silence. The ignoring me while his new woman began harassing me at work. I am moving very soon as far away as I can get, and this will help in terms of feeling safe. But I am aware that the emotional damage is not going to disappear. I remember random comments – like how we couldnt go to his bed one day because he hadnt cleaned the sheets. When I probed, the cat had been sick and he hadnt had time to change. Yeah right! I can now see that even then only a couple of months in to what I thought was the start of the best relationship ever with a man who got me, understood me, had the same values, cared, sensitive, blah blah was a man who was already taking others to his bed. And possibly when it started with me finishing with someone else. I have found out that in the three year period he said he had lived like a monk he had a minimum of 4 other relationships with young woman at work. So everything about us was a lie. My reality was real to me. But it was based on lies and deceit. That is the hardest thing to move on from, accepting that te relationship and man who knew more about what I wanted than what I had acknowledged to myself what I wanted was based on his mirroring back to me what he had worked out about me. I am real, my experiences are real. He unfortunately was just a mirage who decided to inflict a huge amount of pain on me. I have become wiser though and realise that abuse (emotional and psychological) is hard to recognise while it is happening, and even when you do it is so hard to accept that this happened. But it did. and the only way to thrive again is to accept that and focus on things in life that bring pleasure and joy. In my case a blue sky, being around people who actually do care about me and demosntrate it in action and words, there are small things that lift my spirits, ice cold water, strawberries. A friend bringing me sunflowers. All small. All more meaningul than the 3 years of my encounter with the man I believe to be sociopathic as well as narcisstic (becuase yes, I read everything i possibly could to understand what had happened to me). But it is hard and I feel so much for Laura as she pours out her questions here – the complete confusion is so hard to understand and then accept. But I believe everyone who experiences this gets there in the end, even if it is a slow and painful journey, with relapses along the way!.

    1. Jen

      Wow…you sound like a totally different person now than you did this morning!! Yayy

      1. Laura

        Jen, I think you thought it was me who posted that….not sure. That was someone else. I am still struggling very much so. I read the article though and it is really good. I have read a lot. The problem is that although I recognise those features and I admit he could be a Psychopath it is still hard to accept it. I have no doubt his behaviour was so abusive and so destroying but I find it difficult to accept that people like this can exist. It is like you read but you think that cannot happen to you. And it hurts badly how he blocked me this time, other times too, but this time in particular. I had only been with him 2 weeks ago and to read on a whatsapp that it was out of question to see me again (although I knew it somehow) in such a cold manner, making fun of the raping comment I told him adding to it the “fisting and gagging and bondage”. I felt like a knife cutting my heart. Those were his last words. That is the last thing he said. 6 months, 3 times meeting and all I will remember is how he was making fun of raping. And then he blocked me and vanished.

        I can read all the articles in the world but the pain, the pain is going to be there for quite a while. The humiliation, the psychological and emotional abuse. Only a week ago he had an asthma attack, he told me he was at the emergency doctor. I was worried about him. I talked to him, I wanted to know how he was. A week later he blocks me. I can’t wrap my head around this.

    2. Laura

      Hi disillusioned,

      It is great to see that you are doing and feeling better. I wish I could be there now but I am going through a lot of pain at the moment. I have been reading non stop and this article Jen sent is fantastic. But you know? even after reading so much I keep wondering if my guy is really a Psychopath/Sociopath/Narcissist. If I really knew he was one I think it would help me greatly but you know what keeps coming into my head:

      I wonder, could he be just a “normal” guy, the typical jerk who has a gf and at the same time he wants other women on the side? maybe that is what he wanted and he doesn’t want the extra women to pursue anything further than sex with him. Perhaps, if he notices that the additional women, like me, want actually something more serious or if he sees I am sentimental and I have values and that I actually want more, which I do, then maybe his way is to push me away in a cold and cruel way so that I get the message and get into my head that he won’t offer me that. Once he said he was with a woman and that she told him she was falling in love with him and that he had to stop seeing her because he already had a gf and he didn’t want two. Could it be he is just a jerk and not a psychopath? That is what really keeps coming into my head all the time.

      1. Jen

        Nope. Not a coincidence. He’s a psychopath. Healthy people don’t go around ignoring each other for things like that. They talk it out. Each person listens to the other and they do it without judgement or meanness. Whenever a psychopath doesn’t get his way, he has a temper tantrum and ignores you til you learned your lesson or he gets bored and needs your attention. I go through that same ambivalence everyday. Maybe he was just going through a spell of wanting attention when he was dating the three of us and flirting with everyone else. Maybe he was just lost but has now found the woman of his dreams aND that’s why he discarded me and he’s gonna be so good and loving to her. We cant unserstand how people can be so selfish and cruel bc our minds dont operate like that. At all. We have this thing called empathy…and narcs lack that. Reality is, my narc was a scumbag before and is a scumbag now. An article I read said that often victims of narcs question their sanity and if their narc really is one. She said if you’ve EVER been given the silent treatment then hands down yes he’s a narc. Healthy people don’t just disappear. They talk rationally. And they don’t have four girls at once. I know mine was dating three of us but had so many other thru text and social media that he was seeking attention from. Sometimes I wonder if he really is a narc aND think he will be so great to the new one that he left me so callously for and then ignored me. They look so happy on social media. However, I also know that he cheated on her for seven months, lied to her for seven months and when I confronted her, had her so manipulated that she didn’t believe the physical proof of texts and pictures I sent her that he had sent to me in the last seven months. She doesn’t believe the physical proof. That girl is in deep. That’s how you know he’s a scum. She blocked me on everything without even listening what I had to say bc he told her I’m crazy and jealous. I was just trying to help her out bc he deceived me for a year and he deceived her for seven months when he was begging to see me and have sex with me and love me. He’s still lying to her now. Tell me how that’s any kind of respect for her at all.

      2. Laura

        The reason I wonder if he is a psychopath is because of course, I am not a professional and don’t know his history to diagnose it. I do know he has a gf and he had no problem in admitting that from the start and then I do know that he sleeps with whoever comes along and he has also made sure he has told me about many women he slept with and I do know he is cheating on the gf. But there are also many men out there who cheat on their gfs/wives with other women and they are not psychopaths. How can I know my guy is? Can I call him psychopath because he sleeps with many women and cheats on his gf? One of the revealing things though is the fact that even having a gf whom he saw in December he was flying to another woman only weeks later to have sex with her (she was a stranger). Also, after being with gf in March he flew to me in April. That is all I know for sure.

        You said:
        “Whenever a psychopath doesn’t get his way, he has a temper tantrum and ignores you til you learned your lesson or he gets bored and needs your attention”

        What I last said to him is that I didn’t want to fly to someone who is a beater and talks about rape. I don’t see that as him not getting his way because he in fact was the one who first said that meeting me again is out of the question so if I say to him that I won’t meet him either that should make him feel relieved. Also, he knows he talked to me about rape and he threatened with beating me so that is a fact. How is that not getting his way?

        1. Jen

          Again, you called him abusive. You pointed out his shortcomings and reminded him he’s not perfect. Healthy people can handle that. Narcs cannot. You stopped giving him the supply he needs so he dropped you. Point blank. Never cared about…doesn’t know how to love truly. You were used. Everyone he’s with will always be used. He’s warped

        2. Jen

          He may have not wanted you to visit but what he did want was for you to always fall all over him and give him attention…negative or positive it’s all the same to a narc. You stopped giving him what he wants to hear. You made him see reality of himself that he hates. Your use for him is done. You stopped stroking his ego. He will find someone who will thinks he’s perfect. My narc always disappeared when I called him out but always came back days later looking for attention

        3. Jen

          Also, attention is attention…as long as he has at least one person to have sex with…attention can come in any form and be just as fulfilling, whatsapp, texts, facebook, instagram, etc. They literally need it ALL DAY

  51. liz

    I know I’m rambling. And I’m not blaming his brother. Because even if he’s behind this my ex was stupid enough to think it would work.

    But I’ve literally seen his brother in action telling other women he’s happier with a particular woman etc on multiple occasions. I just never saw any red flags in my ex until this point.

  52. liz

    The reason I brought up the not being abusive or angry etc is I’ve read they become abusive when you ignore them or don’t give into their demands. And he’s never blamed me for the cheating or said its my fault which I’ve also read is characteristic

  53. liz

    Thanks Kim. I guess the reason for my confusion is I’ve never seen him be like this in the two years we’ve been together.

    None of our mutual friends have said hey I saw him with this girl or that girl.

    Whereas everyone knows his brother for having such a reputation. And it struck me as odd that his brother who typically plays these games with women contacted me

    Oh yeah my ex whatsapped me last night saying “looking lovely” I deleted the message without opening it and ignored it.

    I guess I’m just looking for clarification that maybe his brother could’ve convinced him that this will work. Or are they both just one in the same

    1. Kim Saeed

      Liz, narcissism does run in families (generally because a parent is narcissistic and children learn the behaviors, and adapt to their dysfunctional family dynamic by becoming narcissistic themselves – others end up becoming codependent).

      I can only speculate here, but it could very well be that this guy kept it hidden from you, especially that your relationship was long-distance.

      My Ex and both of his siblings are highly narcissistic, just to give you an example.

  54. Jen

    Hi Kim. I apologize in advance for the length but I really need to vent and hear from an unbiased outsider that I’m not crazy. Here goes, I was officially dating a guy from August 2014 to Feb 2015. He made me so comfortable with everything that it felt like we were soulmates after 1 week…constant texts that sounded like they were taken from Hallmark cards, compliments, phone calls, etc. I was always told I was the only one for him and all he wanted for his future. However, he was weird on social media…never posted pictures of us on instagram and facebook, saying his parents are strict Albanian and hate American girls. It was around two months after we began dating that I found a secret twitter account where he was proclaiming singledom and flirting with a girl that he dated right before me but supposedly ended it in July. I called him out…he begged for forgiveness and promised to stop. In the time before he “broke up” with me between October and february, he was so jealous and insecure. Constantly accusing me of cheating and flirting with guys. He would always find reasons to ignore me for a few days and then come back a few days later like nothing ever happened. As time passed, he became increasingly insecure and possessive and really verbally abusive…making fun of my body, my mothering skills, my job as a dental hygienist, my friends, etc. Anything be could say to hurt me, when he was feeling hurt. He was cut throat. Hands down meanest person I’ve ever met at times. But he would always act like nothing happened a bit after. He couldn’t figure out why I was upset by it. I was accused of the craziest most outlandish things and I was always wondering where he came up with such silly things. Fast forward to our breakup in February. He broke up with me for some dumb reason that honestly I can’t even remember. However, continued to act like we were really together. Calling me his girl, saying we need to fix us, starting verbal arguments with followers on instagram who merely liked one of my photos. Any of my guy friends I was accused of sleeping with and I was made to unfriend a lot of them on social media and in real life. At first I was like ok, he’s insecure. But then it got bad. My dad fell ill last may and in april of this year we found out he had six weeks to live. My ex was never there, disappearing every weekend (since March) after initiating a fight and came back around every Monday like everything was fine. At this point I was angry so I didn’t want to talk but after a few days Id calm down and agree to talk and it would be close to the weekend and time to fight and disappear. When he wanted to talk, i didnt. When i finally agreed, he was hostile and ready to fight. Every damn weekend. I just thought he was being stubborn. He came back everytime telling me how I’m his soulmate and he can’t live without me, sending me memes, emails begging me to work it out and sent flowers on my birthday in march. He begged me to bring my daughter to the beach with us, etc. I was with my dad all the time from March thru may when he passed so my exs disappearances were less in my mind bc of what I had going on with my dad. Well, my dad died in May and he begged to come to services, wrote me a long email saying how wrong he is and how great I am and how he can’t live without me, again, a monday after disappearing a day after my dad died, for the weekend. I didn’t let him come to services and our correspondences became less and less but every week he begged to see me. Sometimes calling legitimately 40-70 times in one sitting when I refused to answer. He never gave up. I was so vulnerable and sad. I started thinking that he wouldnt be sticking around if he didnt care. Twice I gave in and let him see me, once in April and once in May and he spent the night and things happened, as you can imagine. Both times he had some weird excuse to leave early…I have to go home and feed the dog, and the second time I went to the gym while he stayed in my bed and he called me saying he found a condom wrapper under my bed, which I assume he planted for an excuse to get pissed and leave (bc he left after “finding” it) or to try to get me to admit to something I didnt do. It was his. Same lot number, exp. Date, subtype, all that. He denies to this day that he put it there. It always seemed like a game…when I was resistant and didn’t want to talk, I was his soulmate…the minute I gave in and agreed to talk with a fresh start, and the fresh start was his idea, he would immediately go back to being angry, get really mean tell me that he wants to talk about past issues and who were these guys that we’ve talked about for months and how I’m a liar and a whore bc I won’t tell him the truth about them, which I did a million times everyday for three months, while we werenot official, but he still acted like we were. He woulsnt believe me unless i admitted im a whore and alept with all of them. Which i never did so he never dropped it. He stalked my social media. I was questioning him about his disappearances and he always had an excuse as to what he did that weekend and said “our relationship is so bad, why would I possibly want one with someone else?” And “why would I waste my time talkin to you through all this garbage and fighting if I had someone else?” Youre the only girl since August, you’ve always been the only one. etc. so I believed him and just thought he would eventually stop being a stubborn jerk. Fast forward to two weeks ago. I did some snooping and found out he was carrying on an emotional, online affair with a girl halfway across the country for SIX MONTHS. She showed me pictures and screenshots of pictures and videos of him that he sent to her from October thru april. They have dates on them…physical proof. Holy crap, how did i miss this???? So…I sent them to him. He denies them up and down and tried saying they are from last spring bc that’s when he talked to her, way before me. I laughed so hard bc I have the proof in my hands that it was when we were together. I was wondering how he could continue to try to insult my intelligence. I decided to let him go for good. Of course he didn’t let that happen. Every few days he sent texts saying how he wants a fresh start and he loves my daughter and I and he can’t stop thinking about me. Just last Monday he sent me song lyrics to the song stay by Florida georgia line and he’s never listened to country music a day in his life. I was like hmm that’s weird. The lyrics basically say what can I do to get you to come back to me bc I can’t live without you. I didn’t respond but did more snooping on facebook and found a girl corresponding with him and I only found her bc her profile picture has him in it. So I look further and they have pictures back to december. Eight friggin months. How did I miss that???? There were THREE of us between october and may. How did he even balance that? Welp, that explains where he’s been every weekend. I was literally sick. I sent him screenshots and he didn’t respond. One of my friends wrote to the girl to tell her and I sent her some screenshots…she was so rude and said “stop sending me shit, it’s my birthday,” “I know he’s not cheating on me we are happy, weve been together every weekend and he told me you are crazy and miserable and jealous so move along.” I showed her physical proof of texts and pictures that he sent me in the last seven months and she didn’t believe me. A song by Florida georgia line which happens to be her favorite group, after seeing her facebook page and he’s never listened to country a day in his life, before her. I even told her certain dates to ask him where he was for the night because he wasn’t with her, he was with me and showed proof and she Con tinued to deny he was cheating and they are really happy together. Next day he was nasty to me saying I’m jealous that he doesn’t want me and that’s why I wrote to her and that I can Continue to watch him love her from afar…when three days before he was confessing undying love for me. He then said he blocked me. No apologies, no nothing. Just meanness for getting
    caught. He’s all over her social media in pictures and statuses, it’s like she lost her own identity to him. She even put his initials on her instagram headline with little hearts. Gag me. The funny thing is, he has no pictures with her anywhere in his profile or on his instagram. No mention of her except where she’s tagged him at the movies or something. I guess he has NPD…that’s my guess but I always doubt myself and blame myself for not being as available when my dad was dying, but in full reality i was always available. I get sad bc I feel like he will be better to the next one. Like he will actually love her and be honest from now on bc he was caught and wants to salvage it. I’m so sad with this one and I don’t know why. It’s like he has me hooked and we’ve been broken up for six months. It’s like he never let me move on. I just want to know he does have NPD and that this girl has not hit the lotto like she thinks and that he will do the same to her. I need it for peace of mind. I know I shouldn’t care but I can’t help it.

    1. Jen

      I forgot to mention that he is a pathological liar and I caught him in soooo many lies and when confronted he had an immediate answer and excuse without even flinching.

      1. Jen

        Also when my dad was really sick and he got mad at me or jealous over something I didnt do, he would make comments about my dad dying…for example he once said “I’m glad your dad is dying.” Or “if you’re cheating on me, that puts the nail in the coffin. Better yet, the nail in your dad’s coffin”and a laughing emoji with a skull. I just thought it was a temper tantrum. He’s sick and twisted.

  55. liz

    Mine is very complicated and therefore I’m very confused. It was an overseas long distance relationship but we has mutual friends. And when we met we clicked. We spoke all the time for long periods. He seemed like “the one”. Two months later he came here. Met my mom and some of my friends. All of last year was great. Both of us went back and forth. Met his family and friends and vice versa. The plan was to get married. I went there in March. Met his son. Everything seemed normal.

    Fast forward to May. A female contacts me with photos of them. Two their kissing. I confront him. Ask if he wants to be with her. He swears it’s a mistake and he loves me. She watches his son from time to time and things got out of hand but he truly loves me and wants us to work. The weeks following this he’s totally accountable and remorseful, future oriented etc. I was still a little distant but making the effort.
    A few weeks later I call his phone and SHE answers. She goes on to say they’ve never stopped dealing. And that his son is there asleep. I’m livid. We speak a few times that week but I see he’s being distant. I tell him I need a break. He still calls and whatsapps me. I ignore them. I tell him I’m ready to talk a week later and he ignores my calls. He has never been like this with me ever. I’m extremely depressed.
    We have sporadic WhatsApp conversations. Nothing substantial. This is going on for 6weeks. So one day he calls and apologizes. And says he’s been an ass. And he’s coming to the states. If I’d be willing to see him. He’ll explain everything. The understanding is that he’d be staying with his family in a neighboring state (sidebar he has a brother who is married but is still quite the ladies man. In doing research I think his brother is NPD because I’ve seen him in action with multiple females. Using other people to contact women to lie on his behalf. I’ve never seen my guy operate in that manner or have any of our mutual friends see that they’ve seen him behaving suspiciously)
    Any who a couple weeks later I bombard him like why is this “explanation” taking so long he says I’ve screwed up. Its complicated. And claims to love us both. I tell him there is nothing further to discuss. If u love her I’ll leave u alone. He asks me why? I then ask if I should send his clothes and shoes that are at my house to his brother. He doesn’t answer

    Two days later I get missed call from him. I WhatsApp him. He says he was saying hi. I told him we have nothing to discuss. If u love her be with her. And stop contacting me because of your conscience. He says that’s not the reason. The next day he asks me a question about coming Here I answer and ask no details about it. Not when he’s coming or anything. Two days later I have 6 missed calls. He’s asking me to help him find a hotel.

    At that point I make it clear. You’re not going to use me. Ask one of your brothers etc. Why are u asking me. And I make it abundantly clear I have nothing to say. If she’s out the picture. Eventually maybe we can work on fixing things. But as of now I’m done.

    Later that day he messages me he’s stranded at the airport in my city and please he needs help finding a hotel. There would be no reason for him to fly into my city other than to see me. I told him flat out ask your girlfriend to help u. He responded thanks and that’s the last I heard from him. A week and a half later his brother who I think is NPD texts me ” just to say hi” which he never did when his brother and I were together.

    Everyone is surprised whose been because they don’t he ever loved me

    My question is was my boyfriend an NPD the whole time and fooled everyone. Or is he being desperately misled by his NPD brother on “how to get me back”,

    My ex has never been abusive or blamed me for any of this. In fact when I tried to apologize for cursing and behaving like a lunatic (rightfully so) he stopped me and he apologized

    Im just totally confused

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi Liz, I can’t diagnose anyone as having NPD as that would require a clinical assessment, but what I can offer is that what he did to you is the same game played out by narcissists all over the world. The whole “I messed up”, “I love you both”, “I’m sorry and want to work it out”. Point blank, he is manipulating you. He wants to have the best of both worlds, having two women he can toggle back and forth between as he fancies. He’s claiming “it’s complicated”, but really, it’s not. He is hoping that by future-faking and keeping you hopeful that things will eventually work out that you will tolerate his cheating habits – only for you to discover one day that he never intends to stop cheating. The best course of action would be to completely block this lying cheat-bag and start the task of moving forward with your life. (By the way, his “remaining calm” and “apologizing” while you have a melt-down is all part of the scam. He seems so sauve about it because he does it to women ALL THE TIME).

      1. Jen

        Oh my gosh, my ex narc used to be so nasty and mean til I would cry. Then he would get more mean. Until the times I would reach my breaking point and freak out over being accused of the same thing over and over and over and I would scream line a banshee (and that is not me) and all of a sudden he was calm and apologetic and offering solutions to start fresh and he’s so sorry. But ir went back to crap thr next day. It makes sense now.

  56. Veronykah

    Mine broke up with me for the last time and I finally didn’t care. He left me alone for about 3 months then thought he’d waltz back in with sweet emails and letters and all the love bombing.
    Little did he know it was all about NO CONTACT for me.
    Has been for the past 7 months, he still tries to speak to me. I still give him nothing.

    Wonder how it feels to have the tables turned.


    It feels SO good and gets so much easier to get rid of them when you stay away! You can all do it!

    1. Kim Saeed

      Thank you for sharing your success story, Veronykah! I just love it 🙂

    2. Laura

      I was trying hard to stop contact with him. I knew I had to do it. The abuse had been too much and now there was no way I was going to meet him again or fly to him so there was even less point in talking to him, what for? I was trying to be strong and finally see that this couldn’t keep going and I did know so well that it had to be who stopped this, that at least that would make me feel proud, that at least I would have the last word after all the abuse he carried out. But somehow, out of the blue we were sending messages on whatsapp last week and he blocked me. This is so bad for me, for my self esteem….knowing the way he has behaved all along and now to think and remember that it was him with the last word and the one taking me out of the way. This really makes things for me much worse.

      I have desperately contacted him asking him for at least an explanation telling him that I deserve at least to know why he did it and if this is over. No replies at all and it hurts like hell, first because he was the one getting rid of me and second because by him doing this I can see even more how little I meant to him all along.

      1. Veronykah

        Stop contacting him, believe me he will be back. In my experience, they ALWAYS come back.
        Why did he stop contacting you? Because he’s a narcissist. He probably has someone else and when she doesn’t want to deal with him anymore he’ll call you again.
        Mine broke up with me but in the end it’s ME who decided it’s over. He’s been trying every possible avenue to get me to respond to him for MONTHS. I refuse each time.
        Yours will come back and you can have the last word by blocking him. Don’t respond, don’t get into a conversation. There is nothing to be said. He’s an abuser, you don’t deserve to be treated that way and you CAN move on.
        The longer you aren’t in contact with him the better you will feel, believe me.
        Decide to start today, whether or not he is in the picture.
        It’s about YOU not him.

      2. Laura

        To Veronykah,

        That is what I was just going to ask, whether they come back. I don’t really know why he blocked me this time. My last sentence to him was “you may never meet me because I interfere with your social network but I will not meet you because I don’t meet beaters”. Then he blocked me. It has always been the case that he has had other women anyway. Well, last time back in July after he blocked me I was after him, the same as now, sending emails and sms. After trying a few times he told me:

        “Give me a consistent impression!
        Consistently positive!
        Not like a mentally unstable nutcase!”

        Well, after following him he unblocked me and we got back to talking, however, now he hasn’t replied to a single email or sms. This time unlike the others he didn’t even warn me that he was going to block me. And this time I threatened him with contacting his gf because I saw her phone number when I was with him displayed on his home phone when she called. He was in the bathroom (pity because there were some digits missing as the number was too long and I actually don’t have the full number) but I think it is impossible this time he comes back. I think this time he is really pissed off.

        1. Jen

          It’s a game. He loves the chase and to know you’ll fall all over him. He comes around when he’s feeling empty and in need of an ego boost. No offense but that’s all we are to narcissists. An ego boost. They don’t care about us in a sense that a normal person does. No empathy or love. Ignore him
          . .you win. All he wants is attention and it doesn’t matter where it comes from. He needs it to feel like a man bc he doesn’t even like himself. They want attention. Positive aND negative. Sadly it’s all the same to them. Do t give the attention. Bc any communication is engaging in what he wants

      3. Veronykah

        You’re still playing the game with him.
        He’ll be back. At least in my experience, mine ALWAYS comes back. I haven’t spoken to him in 7 months and he’s still bothering me.
        My advice is to stop wondering, thinking, guessing, assuming, whatever about him, his brother, his other women or whatever.
        It doesn’t matter,
        He has shown himself to not only be a liar but a cheater and an abuser (yes, the silent treatment is abuse).

        Stay away from him. He won’t change, this isn’t due to any “circumstances” in his life. He’s a bad person. Period.
        You will not get closure or anything resembling that from him.
        If you want to stay locked in chaos and drama with him being great then ignoring you, that is what you are in for.
        They don’t change. Normal people don’t just block and ignore you for making them angry.

        You’ve said he’s an abuser, stay away. Trust me.

      4. Laura

        To Jen,

        I don’t know anymore because he did block me a week ago and still blocked and I think it will be for good.

        If he really liked the game he would be available for me to contact him in order for him to be able to play. How can he play if he has me blocked?
        I do agree, that he may want the attention, but how can he get the attention if I am blocked on Skype and whatsapp. Ok, as I said before I have been sending him sms and emails asking him to at least tell me why he has blocked me and that if he doesn’t want it fine but that at the very least he tells me in my face. He hasn’t replied to anything at all.

        How can anyone want to play if they block the person the play with? That is what I don’t understand. If I wanted to use someone I wouldn’t block them

        1. Jen

          They don’t think normal like we do. He probably blocked you bc you called him out on something or bruised his ego. Either way, chances are he has someone now to give him the ego boost that you used to. Remember this, a narcissist can never be alone. They are too damaged and their self esteem is too low. So if the attention isn’t comING from you, it’s coming from someone. You’re blocked now but you won’t be forever. Once this source of supply is burning to him or she figures him out, you will be unblocked and he will be back. It may be months…but he will be. My narc just blocked me last week from contacting him after confessing his undying love to me bc I exposedid him to the girl he has been seeing behind my back. He’s mad at me and blames me for trying to ruin his life by telling her, even tho he’s the one who cheated for seven months. I sent screenshots and physical proof and she still stayed with him, called me crazy, etc. Man has he got her brainwashed. Trust me, everything through narc does is a game. For a thrill. Bc they need attention like they need air. And they get bored too easily so they constantly need a thrill

        2. Jen

          Also, the blocking you is part of the silent treatment which is the biggest indicator if a narcissist. Especially if it’s for no reason. We don’t go around blocking people if they’re not abusing or harassing us. This is a form of punishment for them. They love bomb you and get you dependent on them only to rip the rug out from under you and ignore you to “punish” you by withholding their attention that they know you want. If he blocked you, you said or did something to bruise his fragile ego…but he will be back.

      5. Laura

        Yes, Jen, I know about them wanting attention and supply. Thing is, this guy has always had girls around, his gf and others he sleeps with, even while talking to me.

        When we were last on whatsapp (1 week ago) he told me meeting me was out of question because I interfere with his social network so I told him that he many not meet me because of that but that I won’t meet a beater (as he told me in his house that next time he would have to beat me in order for me to understand something he was saying). Just when I said that he blocked me without warning (other times he has warned me when he was blocking me).

        I also told him that I was going to contact his gf and tell her everything so I think that is probably the very reason he will never unblock me again. When I was in his house she called his home phone and I saw the number on the screen. I tried to memorise it but there were some digits missing so I wish I had the number and I could contact her (I would do it) but I can’t.

        Other times he has blocked me and then after me being after him he unblocked me but I do have the feeling this time it has gone too far because I threatened him with contacting the gf. Even before when I sent an sms he replied. Now, complete silence. The times he blocked me before it was just for a week maximum.

        1. Jen

          He blocked you because you threatened to tell his girlfriend. He doesnt want to be exposed and lose that supply. My narc blocked me for the same reason. Exact same. Only I did tell her and she doesn’t believe me. I sent screenshots of texts. Dont contact her. Chances are she’s with a narc, she has low self esteem and has been brainwashed too. Also, you insulted him by calling him a beater…you shattered his ego. Of course he’s gonna run from you. You stopped praising him and have forced him to see his true self. And he doesn’t like himself. All his validation comes from outside. You don’t validate how amazing he is so he has no use for you now. Just like mine. Do yourself a favor and be thankful he’s gone. Look how tormented he has made you feel. But he will be back. They don’t have self control and the old urges will come back when he’s lonely or bored. They aren’t like us…they don’t care where supply comes from and if he’s alone someday, he knows you’ll come running back. So he will come tact you. In his eyes, anyone will run back to him bc he’s awesome and such a great catch. That’s what they convince themselves to hide how much they hate themselves

        2. Jen

          He keeps you on his contacts bc he Will be back and he’s fully aware of it. Don’t you see the pattern here? All females aredesperately trying to figure out why their narc did what they did. Or why theyre being ignored. We are all tormented. And keep asking repetitive questions. People in healthy relationships dont do this. It’s part of the game they play. And tell tale sign he’s a narc and you’re being victimized. Don’t be jealous of theach gf. Look how much she’s being played

        3. Jen

          Honey, look how you’re obssessing. You’re torturing yourself. I know bc I did the same. You will never figure him out. Know you’re better off without him. It’s so hard bc they get their hooks in us and we have to be damaged emotionally ourselves or else we wouldn’t care bc we would see how terrible they are. Especially if he was cheating with you on his gf. Slimey

      6. Laura

        I know on Skype you have two options, either blocking or removing person from your contacts or else both. I know he has blocked me but I don’t think he has removed me from his contacts. I wonder why too because he could actually do both, block and remove. If he had removed me from his contacts I would see his profile with an interrogation mark saying that that person hasn’t shared details with me but that is not the case. I wonder why he keeps me in his contact list even if I am blocked.

        1. Jen

          You need to stop worrying about why he does what he does. He’s a narcissist and you will never figure him out bc you don’t think the same. You have morals and values and he does not…moreso your values are very different. He’s a cheater and a liar and he will not change. He’s self admitted he’s a bad person. You need to forget him

      7. Laura

        Actually, he blocked me before I threatened him to contact his gf. He blocked me the minute I said that if he won’t meet me because I interfere with his social network that then I won’t meet him because I don’t meet beaters. That is the minute he blocked me. Then, in anger I told him I would contact his gf (although I can’t because I don’t have the full number).

        Yes, that is what I always felt that he needs to be in contact with people constantly. Either he is on whatsapp or on Skype with one or another. He is impulsive, impatient, and needs excitement.

        I don’t really know but this time I think it has really gone very far.

        1. Jen

          My ex narc was in communication with soooo many females. He was dating three of us at once physically and tons of girls be was texting flirtatiously. So many. Im not sure how be balanced it all. Thats skill! Social media he flaunted himself bc he’s good looking. He depended on those likes from women and got off on the fact that it infuriated me. He can’t be alone with himself bc as much as he portrays how awesome he is, deep down he knows he’s not. Normal.people don’t need constant contact with people. We like alone time. If a narcissist blocks you, he’s definitely not alone

        2. Jen

          Why don’t you sit down and write a list about what exactly you’re jealous of and why you think being with him is a good thing. He’s a liar, a cheater and runs from problems. Hes bad to the core and he cant help it. Its who he is at this point. If you think he will treat you any different then you’re mistaken. He doesn’t know how to be different. Please find a man who loves and respects you. He will do this to every girl for a long time. And you don’t want to deal with this garbage. It’s stress, drama and making you too upset. Your days should not be like this

      8. Laura

        Well, I am jealous of the gf big time because the 3 times I met him (we live in different countries) he only offered me 36 hours and even complaining it was too much. I had to fly there Friday evening and return on Sunday. Even on Sunday there was a late flight in the evening and he made me catch an earlier one. All this is because the gf will be looking for him and if he is not around for too long she gets annoyed and suspicious. She lives in another continent and I know he went to see her twice and she went to him once. Of course, they were together each time for about 1 or 2 weeks so I get mad at the fact he spends time with her while he offers me 24 hours.

        Of course, he is cheating on her non stop. Actually, he flew to her in December and 3 weeks later he was flying to a stranger to have sex with her. In March the gf visited him and only in April he was meeting me.

        He has been with her since last October (in the distance) and she wants to get married and go and live with him in his country. He keeps saying he doesn’t want to get married and that they have different expectations. Every time he talks about the relationship is so negative. That they fight all the time, that they break up, that they have different expectations, that there is disrespect, that he doesn’t want to get married for the sick reason of a visa and that is too simple minded and too stupid to get a job and visa. And I always asked him: why do you stay with her then? if everything is so bad? He says she can be nice. I really don’t know what his intentions with her are. One day I asked him if he is getting married and he said he was thinking of having got married in October but I think that is out now. Another day he said they are frustrated and that one day it will break. I have no clue what is true and what is not but if it is that bad or quite bad why is he there with her? why is he careful she doesn’t catch him cheating? why does he go to visit her and spends 2 weeks with her?

        1. Jen

          He chooses her bc you see through him and you know he’s not God now. She probably has no clue. She offers him more validation and N supply so she’s worth more in his eyes. You call him out and make him see reality. She does not. It’s exactly why my narc blocked me

      9. Laura

        Yes, you are right, I wouldn’t want to be the gf and be cheated on but there must be a difference if he is so attentive with her and so careful that she doesn’t find out when he doesn’t do that with me.

        In fact once he told me he doesn’t want her to find out because he doesn’t want to hurt her. I said: oh,so then you love her? and he said: well that is what I tell her and I tell myself. He said he can do the same if she is in another continent but that he doesn’t want to know because it would hurt him. And I asked why it would hurt him? he said: just sentimental, or pure greed,wanting to possess. Thing is he spends time with her to meet her for long periods of time and he hides his cheating but with me he comes to me and tells me how he drove 2 hours away to have sex with a woman or I was asking him where he was and he said he was with such and such having sex or that he had 2 blind dates.

        So why does he tell me in my face all the women he is with? while he hides it from her?

        1. Jen

          Narcso dont love anyone but themselves. He wants to keep her bc she doesn’t call him out on his bullshit but you do. Your value is less as supply for him, but not as a person to normal people. You force him to see his abusive and bad self and he hates that. He only tells you he loves her bc he wants to hurt you. My narc was so pissed when I told his gf he was confessing tact me and asking me to be with him. He said “you’re just jealous I don’t want you. You can watch me love her from a distance.” Ummmm if he loves this girl he woulsnt have cheated her with me and this other girl. Your narc is cheating on her with multiple people. Tell me what part of him doesn’t want to hurt her?

        2. Jen

          He tells you bc you already know he’s slimey. His chances of you thinking he’s a God are gone. You lost your value as supply. She probably treats him like a God like my narcs gf does, even tho she’s seen proof he cheated for seven months. My narc chose this girl over me. Bc she let’s him do what he wants. I called him out and forced him to see the cheater he really is

      10. Laura

        Ok, Yes, you ask me to write a list and see what it is exactly that I am jealous of and what it is good about being with him and yes, I can write that list and it is terrible but it is terrible looking at the way he treats ME. If I look at the way he treats the gf then it is not so terrible because I am sure I would want to be with him if he flew to me to spend 2 weeks with me and if he asked me to fly to him to spend another 2 weeks with me and if he was talking to me about future plans, about living together or about me moving to his country.

        The reason why it is bad is because of the way he treats ME in particular. But the big question is: how does he treat others? because obviously, he is more considerate, he dedicates much more time to them and even once I was talking to him on Skype and the gf called so he told me he had to quit the call with me. I then told him that that was really bad and he said I am not the most important person in his life. So obviously, he does many things with her (nice things) that he doesn’t do with me. He is even aware of the fact that if he tells her about the cheating she will be hurt. With me, he just comes and tells me on my face about all the women he sleeps with. How can this be explained? Why doesn’t he hide it from me too??

        1. Jen

          My narcs girl has set the standard. And its low. She showed him he can cheat on her when he wants and there will be no consequences…bc she’s seen proof he’s cheating and still thinks he’s perfect. So now he will do it more bc she made it ok. It’s quite funny to me. She even defends him with the screenshots I sent her with him asking to have sex with me

      11. Laura

        Well, if he really wanted to hurt her he would tell her that he is cheating on her. He does tell me that, who he sleeps with and I know he does it to hurt me so there is a difference: he doesn’t tell her but he does tell me.

        As he said, he doesn’t tell her because he doesn’t want to hurt her and that makes sense. Ok, obviously in my head it doesn’t fit the idea that if you love someone in the first place you wouldn’t be cheating on her, especially so constantly. The very fact he was with her in Dec and it took him only 3 weeks to fly to someone to have sex says it all. The fact, she visited him in March and the minute she went out of the door he was talking to me and actually bought an air ticket to meet me and he came over weeks after being with her but still there is a difference with her and me.

        And then, why does he tell me that he wants to get to know her but without having to get married, which makes sense anyway because people don’t get married just like that without knowing the person just for a visa. He says he wants to maybe live with her to get to know her. I wonder what will happen with them.

      12. Laura

        how do I even know that when he said he is hostile, impatient, insatiable, sex addict, online game addict, that those things are really true? sometimes you don’t know what is true and what isn’t anymore. Ok, I know for a fact he spends hours playing online games and that he is a sex addict too. When I was intimate with him I could feel the coldness, the robotic manner, nope there was no cuddling or anything…….at the start he told me to respect the broken man he is, that he doesn’t want happiness and that he is sad for a reason, that frustrated wives can have sex with him so that they don’t have to get divorced, that he just saves marriages now, that nothing can satisfy him and that the nice guy died years ago

      13. Laura

        I just don’t want him to disappear like that, this will affect me badly I know. It is ok if he has me there in his contacts and I slowly disappear or stop contacting him till it dies but I can’t simply take that after being with him only 2 week ago he now goes like this. No good bye, no nothing, just clicking a button behind the screen. This hurts like hell and more. At least, to tell me it is over, at least to say he doesn’t want it, something…..

      14. Veronykah

        Welcome to being with a narc Laura.
        Unfortunately you don’t get to decide how he “leaves” you or how HE ends it. Trying to get the ending or the closure you want is a waste of time. You will NEVER get it from him.

        YOU can decide how YOU end it though. You are in desperate panic mode right now, been there. It sucks. The sooner you realize you have ZERO control over him and his actions the better.
        Find something else to do, hang with your friends do SOMETHING besides wonder why he is doing what he’s doing.
        Do you want him to have this power over you? When you KNOW he has a girlfriend?
        Are you that person? Have the respect that he clearly doesn’t and leave him alone. Find someone who deserves you and will treat you with respect.

    3. Lulu

      For me it’s different and complicated,Am married for 29 years He works far from home, when I visited in found out he was cheating on me.He swore it was over . I discovered that the affair never ended, Am so hurt and have not confronted him .Am just silent trying to figure out how to approach the situation.He in turn is silent and shows no love at all. I don’t know what to do.

  57. Laura

    Mine is a long story. We live in different countries. Out of 3 time we have met 2 of them I flew to him. Last time when I was leaving I asked if we would see each other again and he told me to knock it off. While I was with him this last time I touched him with a packet of paper tissues over his head. He got really angry telling me he is very sensitive to noise, asking me how I could do that, telling me that I had no empathy and that I was crazy and telling me that anyone would be annoyed by this. Then, I was trying to rationalize this with him, I told him I didn’t know this would bother him so much and basically, he said that the next time in order for me to understand he would have or would beat me. I couldn’t believer what I was hearing.

    Anyway, the time came for me to leave and only 10 days later he was telling me on whatsapp that if was out of the question for him to see me again because I push him out of his comfort zone and that I interfere with his social network (that is considering he doesn’t allow me to meet for more than 36 hours and he was even saying that it would have to be 24 and this is considering we have to fly to another country. Well, he only flew once to me, the other 2, I flew to him). He was being so nasty on the messages, so cold, so cruel….I then told him that he was not meeting me because I interfere with his social network (of course, he sleeps with many women around and he has a gf) that then I will not fly to meet a beater and someone who talks about rape (as he did). Straight away he blocked me on whatsapp and Skype without warning (other times he blocked me in the past but he did say).

    I don’t know what is wrong with me that I seem to be hooked to this. But the fact that he has got rid of me like this and I am wondering if this is also a form of silent treatment, has made me so anxious. I feel really bad. I was thinking of stopping the contact with him and ending this situation because there was no point but he did delete me and my immediate reaction has been to text him asking why he blocked me and that at least he could have said why. I told him that at least he could talk about it rather than disappearing like this. I have sent several messages (sms) and emails and he hasn’t replied to anything. I wonder many times if this is the end of it and I just feel terrible. After all the abuse he has carried out (verbal, emotional) and the last time he threatened me with physical abuse although I don’t know whether he would have carried it out or not, after all this, he is the one with the last word. I feel so so bad.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Laura, these are all the classic signs of narcissistic behavior. I know it’s hard to not reach out, but if you can find a way to cease communications, you will feel better about yourself in the long run. If you can, go ahead and block him from being able to contact you and then start the work of healing yourself. Here’s a link to one of my Pinterest boards with some exercises that might help with anxiety, etc:

      Also, guided meditations are a tremendous help during the first stages of No Contact. Wishing you all the best!

      1. Laura

        He hasn’t replied to any of my messages. He is completely ignoring me and all I do is keep wondering whether he will contact me ever again or this is it.

        I keep asking myself: are these people like this with everyone? how can that be? he has a gf (in the distance as she lives in another continent) and despite the fact that he told me they are always fighting and that they break up all the time the thing is that he seems to continue with her. If he was with her the same he has been with me how could she be there still? plus I know he is always careful that she doesn’t catch him cheating on her (he constantly cheats on her with other women) and he only could see me for 36 hours because he didn’t want her to suspect about him when she called him if he wasn’t around. How can he care so much?

        1. Kim Saeed

          Laura, as someone who’s on the outside looking in, he doesn’t care about her – it’s simply that she has proven to be a great source of narcissistic supply for him and that’s something he doesn’t want to lose. She is probably trauma-bonded and any codependent traits she started out with have been enhanced and ingrained. This 36-hour time limit was probably because he had not only you and her, but also other women to keep in queue. Yes, he is like that with everyone…

      2. Laura

        Hi Kim,

        I just was wondering what you think of this comment. I asked him at the start if he loves her. He said “Well, yes…at least that is what I tell her and what I tell myself”.

        To me it sounded like he was trying hard to convince himself but I may be wrong. How does that come across to you?

      3. Laura

        I really thought to post my story in full detail as I think the firs post was very brief and didn’t explain as well.

        Sorry, if this is long. I am still struggling badly with this.

        I met him over the internet and he is from another country (both of us in Europe though). We talked about travelling and I told him how I would like to visit the area he lives and he quickly told me to jump in a plane and visit him there, which I thought was weird at such an early stage. Anyway, we started talking on Skype and this was in February. He told me he had a long distance relationship (gf) with someone in another continent and that they had met twice only. He said they fight all the time and break up every day and that he hates make-up and that he fought with gf every day over her wearing make-up. I really thought this gf wasn’t serious and that perhaps he was making up he had a gf in order for me not to get too attached to him. All this sounded strange to me. He told me he was a sex addict and online game addict, that he is hostile, impatient, insatiable and he said he had met his “gf” last October. Over Xmas he was with her too and only in January he flew to another country to have sex with a woman. Then, the gf visited him in March and to cut the story short, he flew to me in April just for the 1 day. At the start, I didn’t give it much importance, as I didn’t really want anything serious with him. After he left he told me he was really happy he met me, that he was really happy I was the way I was and that he basically had a great time. Only the next day we talked on Skype and we agreed I would go over to his country to meet him in 6 weeks’ time. Thing is he only wants to spend 36 hours maximum with me because he says he has other things to do and to call his gf because otherwise she gets suspicious if he is missing for too long. This was unacceptable but as it was only the second time we met I thought not to give it much thought as I thought he perhaps wanted to know me slowly and not to spend too much time at the start. He seemed happy that he was going to see me again but weeks before I flew over he started to hang up on me on Skype whenever I said something he didn’t want to talk about. I asked him what he thought of me and he always answered that he doesn’t like me fishing for compliments. He started to give me time limits to talk on Skype, sometimes he would count down and then he would hang up on me. He would tell me I needed to structure my talk and talk about interesting things. One day he told me he gave me 4 minutes to talk and at minute 3.30 he hung up. Then he said that I didn’t know how to use the time he gave me and that if I wasted 4 minutes like that he wouldn’t give me more next time. It became all really nasty, basically.

        I had already bought my air ticket and anyway I was about to cancel it but I flew over. It was only for 36 hours that we met and the day I was leaving I asked him if we would see each other again. He said he didn’t know and then took me to the airport. I was there saying good bye and he was just there for 5 minutes and I wanted him to stay a bit longer till I left. He got really angry, he looked at my face in such a cold way and told me I was being very clingy and that it was over forever, that we would never talk again. I was so shocked so traumatized. Then he walked away and didn’t even look back.

        When I arrived he asked if I had arrived safely and we talked on Skype but he still said it was over. He told me that I spoilt things while I was there, that it was my fault. He said I made him run away, that how I could be so clingy at the airport, he said that I made him pay 3 Euros for parking at the airport when he wanted to go quickly. He constantly told me to change myself, he said how I could undermine his authority, whenever I asked when we could talk he says that he doesn’t know, not now, not today. He blocked me several times on whatsapp and Skype. He many times told me I am ignorant, a bad listener or that I have bad memory. When I ask questions that don’t suit him he tells me to change topic. He even said I had to make an appointment to talk to him.

        Then anyway, we got back talking and so many times when he is not available to talk he tells me that he wasn’t answering because he was having sex with such and such. Even a weekend after me visiting him he told me how he brought another woman to his house and he was doing with her the same things he did with me. Recently, I texted him one day and he said he was driving and that he was *f a girl in another country.

        And now, I visited him a third time in his country (and last time for me) because 36 hours is all he offers me and now he even says that it can’t be 2 nights but only one (and this is considering I fly from one country to another spending at least 400/500 Euros for 36 hours). I touched him with a packet of paper tissues on his head and he got really angry, he told me I have no empathy and that I am crazy, that that was really bad and that he is so sensitive to noise. I couldn’t believe the way he was reacting plus I told him I didn’t know that about him so it is not like I did it on purpose. He said that the fact I didn’t do it on purpose was irrelevant and that anyone would get annoyed by something like that. I was trying to rationalise with him till he said that then in order for me to understand he would have to beat me. Hours later we went to the mountains and he was holding my hand and hugging me and looking at me as if there were feelings somehow.

        Whenever I ask if we will talk he says that maybe, no guarantee or that we will but that he could be wrong. He is always the one who makes the call. Whenever I call him he doesn’t answer. I said to him to call me sometime and he said “only when I want to!” I asked why I can never call him and he said that I can but then when I asked why he never answers when I call he says “because I didn’t want to”. And then he said “appreciate it, that I call you”

        Well, there are so many things he has told me that it is unreal and I don’t know what to think anymore.

        I always saw he is manipulative, etc but the “beating me” part, that really scared me. I saw another side of him I never thought I would.

        While I was there with him this last time there was a time when he grabbed me in a rough way, I told him he was hurting me and to stop but he didn’t. He had sex with me at that time and I didn’t feel well about it. I was thinking for myself that that felt a bit like being forced somehow. Coincidentally, the next morning he brought up (out of the blue) the topic of raping. My brother in law had called him months before to tell him that the way he was treating wasn’t right and this guy told me that morning (after grabbing me roughly the night before) that my brother in law had accused him of raping women. I was shocked because I know my brother in law never said this to him and what a coincidence! he brings that up after the previous night I sort of felt that way.

        Ok, then, one of these days he told me to watch the scene of Maleficient movie where Angelina Jolie’s wings are cutt off. He said: “mind, I didn’t cut your wings off”. I hadn’t watched the movie and didn’t have a clue what this was about and then I read on google that the movie actually is about abuse and that particular scene is a metaphor for rape. I have no clue what he is trying to tell me but he clearly said he didn’t cut off my wings.

        Then, 5 weeks ago we were sending some messages on whatsapp and he basically told me that he won’t meet me again, that it was out of the question because I push him out of his comfort zone and I interfere with his social network. I was so hurt at the cold way he was talking to me plus he had said something I didn’t understand and he told me I was illiterate, stupid and dead slow on the uptake. He also told me I am useless. At that moment I went and I told him that he might not meet again because I interfere with his whores but that I won’t meet him again because I don’t meet beaters. Straight away he blocked me on whatsapp and Skype and that is how it is now. He has blocked me in the past too and then he unblocked me, I suppose because I was after him. I have no clue what will happen anymore but I have the feeling I am blocked for good now although it is strange because although I am blocked on Skype he still has me on his contact list.

        I must add one thing that came into my mind now. At the start of our talks at the very beginning he once told me I was going to get addicted to him and at another point he told I was addicted to him but that I just didn’t know it yet.

      4. Laura

        Hi Kim – I just was wondering if you could please send a private message to a lady called Ingrid, who wrote to me on the 6th of October here, asking her to please get in touch with me. I have posted something for her but she may not be reading my messages.


        I think it might help me to talk to her

      5. Laura

        Hi Kim, I was wondering if you could please send a private message to a lady called Ingrid, who wrote to me here on this thread on the 6th of October. I am afraid she might not read my reply and I would love to talk to her. Her story seems to have many similarities with mine and it would help me greatly.


    2. Laura

      Well, at the start I didn’t think I was going to continue talking to him. I didn’t even know who I was talking to and I really wasn’t considering talking to him anymore. I thought he might have been joking because who would be so stupid to come from the first go and say they are hostile, impatient, insatiable. Oh, he also told me he is a sex addict and an online game addict. He said the nice guy died years ago and to please respect the broken man he is, that he just wants sex and everything else comes after sex. I wasn’t even analyzing anything cause I wasn’t going to keep talking to him. Anyhow, to cut the story short, when I saw he wanted to meet me in person and that he was willing to come over to meet me I thought he was interested in me and actually when he told me he had a gf I thought it wasn’t even true. Thing is, he came over to meet me and he was really nice, he hugged me, held my hand when we were walking. After he left, he told me he was glad to have met me and that he was really happy that i was the way I was. He told me that thanks to me he knew he wasn’t crazy (never knew what this meant though) and that it was a long time since he had been that happy (and that is considering he had been with his gf weeks before). So that is when I started to get hooked. ONly the next day we talked on SKype for 3 hours and we said we wanted to meet again and I bought a ticket to travel to him. That is how all started.

      Well, I suppose the gf cannot see through to him because first of all she is in another country, second he lies to her and third I am sure he treats her well enough so that she doesn’t suspect so how can she figure him out?? although it is very strange that he always told me that they are fighting all the time and that they break every day. How can you break up every day with someone? and if you do, what are they doing “together” after 10 months?

      1. Jen

        Exactly. Cut contact. Find better. And someone in this country. Don’t u want someone u can see daily?

      2. Laura

        yes, of course I would prefer someone in my country but if the person is really nice that is not an obstacle for me. The problem is what I have encountered here. I am feeling depressed. I have been badly treated for 6 months. Not once did he tell me sorry for anything, he rarely asked me how I was even when I told him I had back pain or tooth pain. Once I didn’t get a job I really wanted and I was so down. I told him and he told me that that is life. I sent him a message on his bday. He never replied to it, not even with a thanks. On the other hand I have listened to him so many times how he hates his job, that he needs to find a new one, etc or recently he had an asthma attack and I was constantly checking up on him to see how he was.

        Now, after the constant put downs (he called me useless, illiterate, stupid, slow on the uptake, that was the last time I talked to him on whatsapp) and now after all this he is the one who blocks me. just great!!!

      3. Laura

        I really think this guy goes beyond narcissist. He seems a psychopath. I visited him twice in his country. The first time he dropped me at the airport and I thought he was going to be there with me waiting till I crossed the gate. After 5 minutes he got really angry saying that I was being very clingy and I couldn’t understand what was going on. He had already come to meet me and when we were at the airport we were together till he left through the gate so I didn’t know what was happening. He suddenly looked at my face in such a cold way and told me it was over for good. He walked away from me and never looked back. I was shocked, crying at the airport seeing this cruel, disgusting attitude. Anyway, it is a long story. Then we got back talking but he told me he hates waiting especially at airports and that I was being very clingy, that he was very nervous and I didn’t want to let him go. I couldn’t understand a single thing. He told me to stop undermining his authority when he told me it was over and that no one is entitled to know his future steps.

        This time when I was with him he got angry because I touched him with a packet of paper tissues on his head and he told me I have no empathy, that I am crazy, that he is very sensitive to noise. Again, I couldn’t understand a thing. He told me that next time in order for me to understand he would have to beat me.

        All I have seen is that I have flown twice to him and each time has been worse. Very abusive.

      4. Laura

        Yes, in desperate panic mode is just about right, that is how I feel. I feel I am going crazy and the more time that goes by and I don’t hear from him the more hysterical I get. I do know that all you are saying is right. I don’t want him to have that control over me and all the theory sounds right and understandable but I am hurting badly and I just wish he said something. He has said something other times even when he blocked me. Yes, he has someone he calls gf but what is he doing to her? cheating on her constantly and if he doesn’t more it is probably because he can’t find that many women to have sex with.

        I actually had a fake profile on a page he is advertised and the other day after chatting to me for one hour he told me he wanted to drive to my city (2 hours from his) to meet for 1 hour to have sex. He said that if I wanted he could start driving immediately. He had just come back from work and he was willing to drive 2 hours in and 2 hours out after work for sex with a stranger he had just chatted to on the net….

        1. Jen

          Laura, Found this for you

      5. Ingrid

        at first I wanted to say that I thought I knew you narcissist. Everything in your story sounded exactly like the narcissist in my life; involved with girls in different countries, sex addict, online game addict and so much more of the details you told…until you came to the part of parking at the airport for 3 Euros. (My narcissist does not own a car).

        My comment is in stead how truly similar the ways narcissists can choose to operate to dry life energy from carring people (their prays).

        Reading your story I would say you are deeply trauma-bonded to this narcissist and all you can do is to cut it all off! It hurt like hell (I know the force of the trauma-bond is strong) but staying in that connection – it will only get worse, the abuses (things you today cannot even imagine will happen to you), if you do (even on a distance).
        After years with a narcissist, much like yours, I can tell you that healing is slowly possible. But please get out as soon as you can.
        Take power and cut him off! For good!

        1. Anonymous

          Ingrid – I don’t seem to be able to find your post here. I read it through my email. I initially posted a short version of my story at the end of August but I recently posted a longer version. I can’t find that post either.

          Which story did you read the one from August or the longer version recently? I was shocked when you mentioned your story is so similar. I would like to communicate with you to learn more since I actually always find my story differenr to the rest as I didnt have an idealization phase.

          Yesterday I had a very rough day and I nearly had an anxiety attack.

          I would like to talk to you if you don’t mind. Maybe that helps me open my eyes as I am going through a very bad time.


      6. Laura

        To Ingrid – this is the third time I try to post but my post doesnt show. I was wondering if we could please talk in more detail about your story in relation to mine as it is the first time I find someone with such a similar story.

        I am having a very hard time trying to figure out what I was dealing with and it would help me a lot to discuss a few more things with you if you dont mind. Most stories are different to mine so I was happy and shocked that your story is similar. I just would like to learn more about it in order to compare and thus learn.

        Hope to hear from you.

      7. Laura

        To Ingrid – I am having such a rough time that yesterday I had an anxiety attack. There are many things I cannot comprehend becauseI was with this person for a short time, I dont know him at all. Also he didnt tell me many things.

        I did feel his abuse escalated rapidly. 3 encounters and the 1st one was good so out of the other two by the second one he threatened with beating me next time in order for me to understand that he got annoyed by being touched with a packet of tissues on the head.

        You say there are things he could do I dont even imagine. In fact, I never imagined ever that he could threaten me with beating me. I was so shocked. Also I always wonder if he could have been capable of doing it. The raping comment

      8. Laura

        To Ingrid – sorry, I didnt finish my previous post. I was saying about the raping comment, that that was so shocking and strange. I never knew what he meant.

        I really would like to talk to you. I am in such a state of confusion and everyone else’s stories so different that I dont know where mine fits anymore.

        Please, contact me. Perhaps seeing what happened to you and seeing that you obviously have much more experience than me in this can be lufe saving.


        1. Laura

          Jen – you dont need to reply. No one forces you. Please, remember everyone is free to write. I didnt write to you at all. I replied to a member who replied to me and I am interested to talk to her further.

          You are no one to interfere in my life. Sorry, but your comment is not welcome!! I didnt write to you, I didnt ask you for help so please dont interfere and let me alone!! I dont have to explain to you what I do so dont interfere when I write to someone who answered me


          1. Jen

            Your incessant emails blow up my email notifications. Thats why i respond.

      9. Laura

        Jen – my post is for Ingrid so you are no one to interfere here. You are no one to judge my situation and life.

        I repeat, I didnt write to you and your response is not welcome.

        I wrote to a person in reply to her post to me. Stay out this please. It might be old for you and as such I didnt ask you for help but to be lurking here nd monitor my posts to other people is really shit.

        I am frew to write so do not interfere with my life. You are not anyone to tell mw who I write to and for how long.

        I am not willing ti communicate with you. Can you respect that???

      10. Laura

        Jen – I didnt write to anyone!!!! Here in quite a while.

        I will repeat since you dont get it – my reply was to Ingrid becauae she wrote to me. I DONT HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO YOU WHO I WRITE TO

        Really??? If you get an email and it is not if your concern sumply delete it.

        I do not want to hear from you. I will not be replying to you. LEAVE ME ALONE. You are NO ONE to say how old an story is or who I write to. Your opinion was not requested.

      11. Laura

        Ingrid – I have been trying to get in touch with you through this page but I have the feeling maybe you don’t check out here often. If you are around and you don’t mind could you please get in touch with me?


  58. Sarah

    i did 6months no contact on my ex narc ,though i realy loved myself,i wanted appreciation from him and thats why i loved him . i have a question but before i proceed i want to say about my self. am a gal who loves revenge because i know that if i put someone in my shoes,they will understand how hurt ex would go MIA whenever he felt like so i did the same and he would be so scared even to let me out of his sight,if i sent him a long love message and he replied its like it didnt mean anythìng,i would never send it again and he would complain like a arrogance led me into trouble when he abused me phisically because i came home late and thats when i left him for good my question is.

  59. M

    Kim, thank you so much for this website. The n I’ve been seeing did (of course) some pretty insane stuff, and I said I “needed time” so that I could collect my head, learn about NPD, and reframe all my thoughts and memories according to what was really going on. Given how incredibly mean he’s been, I assume I’m somewhere between the devalue and discard stages. I would really like to say nothing and go no contact, without even sending a breakup ANYTHING, because I know that even saying something will be an excuse for interaction and punishment and button pushing that I’m not sure I can handle with detachment. What do you think about it? Am I being a coward?

    1. Kim Saeed

      M, thank you for your kind praise. No you aren’t being a coward. You are absolutely correct in believing “even saying something will be an excuse for interaction and punishment and button pushing that I’m not sure I can handle with detachment”. In fact, that was an extremely insightful statement. There’s no point trying to make him “get it”, to make him understand how much he hurt you, or justify your breakup from your perspective. You would be coming from the ultimate place of personal power if you could simply detach and walk away – no explanations needed. Wishing you the very best <3

      1. Hoping to heal

        I agree, about attempting to get him to understand. Words that gave me a little shove to start letting him go, I’d like to share…

        “You get it, when you finally see that he’s just not getting it”.

    2. Call it anything BUT cowardly. I see it as things like: intelligent; self-preservation; smarter than the average bear; prefers not to be chewed up then spit out; able to spot a train wreck ahead and knows enough to get off at the first next stop—you get the drift here. A malignant narcissist’s ability to be incredibly mean yet somehow cause others to lose mother-nature’s natural instinct to avoid the very thing which brings pain and death is nothing short of pure evil. People under the thumb of such a creature should never forget nor underestimate that. In my book, I’d call it being WISE. Kim’s advice is the way to go, for sure, M…good luck!

      1. Laura

        Yes, true, but from the very start he wanted me to know which kind of person he was. He didn’t make any effort in hiding it, which is unusual for narcissists and psychopaths as they tend to be great in the idealization stage. He from the start told me he was hostile, impatient, insatiable and that he had a gf. He also told me from the beginning how even having a gf he flew to someone weeks later to have sex with her, etc so he didn’t want to hide who he really was from me.

        Of course, he didn’t do this with his gf, sure not or otherwise she wouldn’t be there. So it is not only that I know who he is or what he is like. I do know because he told me (well, I also saw many things) but he did tell me whereas I am sure with gf he is a different person all together since the moment they talk about being together and about her going over to him or marriage or whatever.

        1. Jen

          If he openly admits those things in the beginning, why on earth would you everather continued correspondence? Huge red flags. For you now it’s a matter of pride. You want to know why you’re not good enough. Remember it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the fact that bes a narcissist. she polishes his ego somehow that mode suits his needs. He cheats on her so he doesn’t love her, let alone respect her. She’s not the winner. You are. You aren’t being cheated on, beaten or made a fool of. She didn’t hit the lotto and neither has she if she’s dumb enough to not see through him

  60. 1st I let him know i’d accept text only then he continued to lie through text so i stopped responding and never bought more minutes.There is no advantage in talking to a liar as it is a waste of time they don’t hold up to any agreement made i wish i had left the situation years ago i enjoyed time with my kids but this has damaged them for life i hope they can overcome everything that has happened i only care about them now.He doesn’t deserve any more of my emotions

  61. Jordan

    Well…..I just found incontrovertible evidence that my narc is exploring the “dating scene” , and you know something? It actually feels pretty good. I now have closure…….it’s going to be okay. As I suspected all along; her silent treatment episodes were in part a ruse to seek out narcissistic fuel from other sources. Oh well… goes on:

    ( I changed the lyrics from man to girl, but this song applies to all narcissists)

    The girl who sailed around her soul
    From East to West, from pole to pole
    With ego as her drunken captain
    Greed, the mutineer, had trapped all reason in the hold

    The girl who walked across her heart
    Who took no compass, guide or chart
    To rope and tar her blood congealed
    When she found herself revealed ugly and cold

    ( I changed lyrics from man to girl, but this song applies to all narcissists)

    1. Kim Saeed

      Thank you for sharing, Jordan, and for the song lyrics. I hope you’re healing and moving on!

    2. Veronykah

      Mine did the same thing. He’d disappear for a week or more then come back as if nothing happened. The worst was the first time when he went so far as to change his phone number, then came back like “Oh I didn’t mean it”.
      He was cheating.

  62. Anastasia Lynne Dunn

    Mish – the best advice I can give, is the best advice I thought of, to heal myself. I may have loved him, but I love myself more. I deserve to treat myself with the same showers of affection that I gave to him, that drained me of everything I had, right before he walked out the door, leaving me for someone fourteen years younger than him.

    Love yourself. Really love yourself. Look at how good you are, and at how weak he truly is. Could you EVER stand in his shoes, and see the world through his eyes? No – because we’re not like him; and we wouldn’t comprehend the nature of that kind of toxic treatment of others. It’s not within us to understand….we see the world through more loving, compassionate and empathetic eyes. They don’t. Period.

    It will pass….but if you let him back into your world, I promise – it will all fall apart again, in a matter of minutes. Don’t do it, love yourself back to life. The light at the end of the tunnel IS there, so keep on going! It may feel like years of darkness before you see it, but one day, just out of the darkness in which you’ve been stuck, there it is! Healing, love and peace will return, and like the phoenix, you’ll rise from the ashes, and fly again!!! <3 BE STRONG!! XOXO

    1. April

      I needed this tonight. Thank you for reminding me of how beautiful I am and of how important I am as well. Your words pierced my soul and will carry me through another night.

    2. riya

      i agree with your words totally.i was discarded in a matter of moments after 11 years of a distance relationship in which i put my heart and soul and did everything till my last breath to make it work.he discarded me for a girl he got engaged to who was his parents’choice and never looked back or called to see how am i doing when he knew i depended on him for everything in my life after my father’s demise.he didnt even wish me for my birthday even though for eleven years we were with each other on every single occasion.he even started plannning his honeymoon as soon as he met her (i had his email acccount password where the itinerary for his honeymoon was posted by the travel agent) i was shattered,broken n totally devastated.i was in a depression.i dont even know how i got through this phase and till now i break down in tears when i think about him.this happened in junee and its november now( its been 5 months now) i keep seeing haapy pictures of him with his fiance andd keep bumping into him at functions (we are family friends and my family isnt aware of the relationship i had) i cant stop thinking about our relationship even for a moment. i had even lost my job before our break up and not once did he ask me how m i doing or how m i holding up. i managed everything all by myself.i am an indian and 35 and girls in india dont stay single till this age. i didnt accept any proposals bcos of him and now i am left alone with nobody to accept me. i was a strong, decent looking, smart and confident girl before i met him and now i am just a heap of junk with no real goals and objectives in life.i am living but without a purpose or objective.i hardly smile.i have a job and i work mechanically just to get through and cos i need money to survive. i am going on but i dont know if i will ever be happy again or find love again.on the other hand when i see him with his fiance it crushes me to death that hes so could he erase me from his memory with so much ease ? wont he ever think about the times we spent together through thick and thin?wont he miss me?doesnt he care?will this nightmare ever end?i have nobody to talk to.i dont know when this dark tunnel end?will i ever find anyone who truly loves me???

      1. Nonna

        i am in the exact same boat. it’s been 9 months. my narc left me for a girl 16 yrs younger than him and after months of cheating on me behind my back with so many women, he got this this young girl pregnant. now he is happy flaunting his dad to be status on social media just like he never wrecked me along the way. I ask myself the same questions every single day. he never spoke to me again or even asked how im doing. and im left alone to pick up all the pieces.

      2. Bradley

        Riya. Wish I could reply in more detail. Will try later. Yes!!! You end the nightmare. Right now. It’s about you. Be strong. Know that you are. We have all been there. You WILL get through this and be happy, stronger, healthy and LOVED for who you are. You may not see it today. But we do. Know it.

      3. Bradley

        Riya….how are you today ? We all have bad days…..know that you are deserving and worthy. There will be pain…for sure. But do not focus on the ex…..what he did, what he is thinking, what he will think, or feel. Its now about you…..all about you. Much online help available to educate yourself on how to distract yourself, not focus on him, heal yourself. You will be fine. Time is a great healer…..but we have to proactively participate in our healing…focus on us. Thinking about you.

        1. Lulu

          I have been treated the same after 29 years of marriage we are both in our fifties,he has been cheating and paying large sums of money to different young women and dropped a bomb by saying he wants to marry these women and also having me in the picture. I SAID NO WAYS..

      4. I almost have your same story, length of time together, everything, to be left in the dust with nothing but a text message and then got ahold of me one year later to, what I feel, basically rub his life in my face. It’s an obsession that has me bed-ridden often, wishing I coukd shut it off…with no real explaination. Last year he texted me “Im still in love with you but you knew that…” Which made my heart almost burst!! 3 weeks solid of this type of talk (also long distance) and he disapears. I find out through someone who’s connected to a good friend of his he’s seeing someone else. I had a total break down. I texted him that I was sick of his lies and lies by omission and he texted me back,”FUCK YOU for using semantics!! I just meant I was happy you’re moving on because I have and yes I’m dating a friend she’s quite nice (I wasn’t even seeing her when I texted you!!).

        Which left only a two week gap. He then got ahold of me a month later after I had another break down….only 6 months later to end in disaster again, him promising to come down and see me not once but twice. He ditched out on and around my birthday which he was supposed to be down for.

        I totally relate. I believed all he told me and despite some very big hardships was lead on for 10 years. I feel as if I have no goals left, just surviving while his life, the one he promised he wanted with me is rubbed in my face. I feel you and all the words your saying. I’m 34 and was with him since I was 23. If you ever want to talk, I’m here. I relate soo much to your story and wish you strength. You don’t deserve this. You are worth immense amounts. I’m sorry this happened to you. Blessings and my email is <3

        1. Anonymous

          I know its hard but if you can wrap your head around that its just a game to him ,it won’t totally flip you out when he calls and says dumps his toxic waste on you . it won’t be easy but it won’t knock you off your feet .YOU GOTTA GET TO THE POINT WHERE IT IS JUST FUNNY .He is crazy .They know we are empaths and hunt us out to play with our emotions . When my Narc called me to end it he said i should just move on with my life he wasn’t good for me …that we were not going to get married …then he said he loved and missed me . OF COURSE GOT TO CONFUSE ME BY SAYING THAT…..but it didn’t i know his game been doing it a long time . Then his Ex starts texting me i guess she was there and made him call me to end it . I guess she wasn’t really a ex she said they were still together and had been so the whole time . He will be back to play his little game on your head BE READY XO

      5. anon

        He’s not worthy of you. Consider yourself fortunate. He will cheat on her later. Right now, maybe your pain gives him pleasure –narc feed.
        Pray to God for a suitable partner. Be positive.

      6. 'Round it goes

        Hello Riya,
        What a beautiful name you have.
        I am 43 and i left my narc relationship of 20 years just 4 months ago. I used to be in your spot. Feeling so much pain from his behavior, wanting to fix it, to help him. Little did i know that everything he does is on purpose, my pain and anguish was created orchestrated by him to the last detail. The continuous silent treatment and the belittling and ignoring, it was no mistake, it was his way of communicating and there was nothing i could do. We have 2 children together and needless to say that made things super complicated to leave him. When i grew up and realized he was a narc and abuse is his middle name it felt like its too late to leave, what about the kids, how can i leave them with thus monster. Also i have worked for him for 20 years so i had no other income at the time.
        What im trying to tell you is that after all is said and done. After all the ugli behavior you were subjected to, the fact tgat he left is a blessing or you would have hone ahead and spent more years of constant oain. Maybe 30 or 40 or 50 more years. How about letting it all go now. Cut your losses, understand the situation and move on. I know its easier said than done. I kniw it isnt right and it isnt fair. But narcs aren’t fair. They are predators, do you want to continu being tortured by this predator?
        For now, look at it this way, he left…. he did you a favor. Forget about what society says you have to do or be at the age of 35. These things dont apply when u dealing which such cruel people. Its not your fault. You chose a bad seed, but life isnt over yet, once you will understand that as humiliating as it has all been and so unfair, its over now, he cant hurt you again. Unless you let him. For your own sake, disappear, go no contact. There are amazing empathetic people in the world who wont dare to do the things he did, who would care for you instead of hurt you. Dont be fooled by a new girlfriend. Feel sorry for her because you KNOW what he will do to her next. When someone is consistently mean, he usnt mean to only one person ie you, its part of him and he will trash her in due time. So bless this moment when you are free and is ready to heal, now that mr. Torture is gone you can start over. Take time to grieve those years of pain. Cry all u need and than work on what makes you happy.
        Indian or not. Dont let culture define you and pressure you. Most people know nothing about emotional abuse and will give you shitty advice or worst wont believe you. Close that chapter and really see the good you being free of this garbage relationship. If u dont have children with him u are lucky. Nothing bonds you. I have 11 more years to deal with this creature but im no longer around to abuse. I left and i feel the best i have felt in 20 years. I am a better mother. I take care of myself. I focus on me. Getting a job, new friends. I mean really just close the door on this crazy making relationship, if u can call it that. Somrtimes i still wish to erase these 20 years off the face of the planet cause im so mad at the injustice, but as times go by, i look to the now and to my future, and i stop myself when i dwell on the past too much.
        Staying away, creating the new you, remembering the you before all this.
        You have a lot of work to do with yourself. Please remember, it isnt your fault, he will do this to another. Just thank god it wont be you. Him leaving is a blessing, may not seem that way right now, cause he hurt you and seems “happy” with his new relationship. But dont be fooled, if he abused you, he will abuse her and others after her. I wish you strength and wisdom cause you will need it. The one thing you probably dont need is this kind of person in your life. Good luck. Stay strong. Someone will see the greatest in you where he couldn’t /didn’t. Once you move your thinking into “thank god its over” you wont miss him and you wont wonder how come he is happy. If he is a true narc, his happiness is temporary. Soon enough he will torture her instead of u. Wouldn’t that be nice to be out of the line of fire.
        What he did to you was hurtful, but he did it on purpose. So he isnt so nice. Run for the hills and never let anyone treat you like that again. Learn and be strong. Life isnt over yet. 35 is young. Everything will balance out and you will get your peace of mind. But YOU have to leave him first…. in your mind. Let it go.
        Love and peace….

  63. Anonymous

    So devastated….please, block him from having any contact. He will suck you dry, yes like a vampire…he will take every bit of life ot of you and you are the only one who can stop him in his tracks. Pretend he is a vampire and blocking him is the cross to keep him away if you have to but he will come back when she stops giving him energy and he knows you will. Yea of your lifewll go down the toilet and you will still end up right back where you are now. He is a s**t and until you see him for what he is….why would a good man tell you how great he sex is with his wife??? He is not a good man, trust me please…these men are not good men. They are users and abusers and the only thing that matters to them is the “Great I Am” (to quote a friend of mine). I lived it for 3 years…it will not change, you have to…..Initiate NO CONTACT immediately. Why are you allowing this man to have the rivelege of talking to you anyway…you owe him NOTHING…Save yourself…the pain will only get worse.

    1. Anonymous

      For some reason I have letters dropped and typos…sorry! You get the gistof what I was saying!

  64. Susan Tribby

    I see one or two comments that mention having a narc mother. That’s where my experience with silent tx began. She and my sister “dumped” me – cut off contact – several times over the years. I finally grew to the point where I didn’t answer when they gave me another chance to “apologize” for basically having my own life. I married someone I found “familiar”, but after 20 years the great sex wasn’t enough any more to offset the emotional abuse, including, you guessed it, silent tx. My daughter has this illness, too, and she dumped me 3 years ago. It almost killed me, but I refused to accept that final ultimatum – “my kids should have no contact with my brother when they are at your house or you will never see them again.” I think it WOULD have killed me, if my ex-son-in-law didn’t allow me to see his daughter, my granddaughter, my daughter’s oldest child. I have three other grandchildren – two “belong” to a son who doesn’t speak to me anymore and doesn’t allow me any contact with them (this is not the “brother” mentioned earlier). One is my daughter’s youngest, and she is my concern, my reason for writing. She is my daughter’s second husband’s child – I believe both this child’s parents are narcs and she is NOT. I have asked CPS, counselors, mediators, and attorneys for help in getting to visit with her, so she knows there is a sane relative who loves her – because she begged me for help even before she could talk. No one has been able to help. We, as a society, throw our future in the garbage when we allow mentally ill people to parent without support. I believe this is partly because the law sees kids as property, and they are nothing to politicians or businesses because they don’t have the right to vote or a significant amount of money. If anybody has any ideas on how I can solve my personal problem or how we together can help the kids who live in this horrendous situation, I want to hear it. Thanks!

  65. Mish

    Tonight is not one of my best nights. I just need to talk. So much resentment towards this person. I witnessed sometimes an almost instant change in personality. From sweet to plain ugly on the inside. Why is it these people cannot ever discuss an issue.
    Who gives them the right to apply silent treatment for many weeks and just re-appear as if nothing is wrong. Without an explanation or an apology.
    I can’t grasp this. It is beyond me.
    Weeks of ignoring me and then sending me messages how sad and alone he is. And that he feels nothing ever belonged to him. As if I was the one who pushed him away.
    I need to let this go. I need to. I’m just so angry tonight. It is like poison that is slowly destroying me.
    How do I just switch off what I feel? How do I do that? Please. Somebody tell me. Tell me what I need to do to move forward.
    How? What? Where to from here?

    1. Kim Saeed

      Mish, there isn’t a way to switch off that feeling. I wish there were. In order to move forward, you’ll need to go full No Contact and cut all ties with the person who is giving you the Silent Treatment. Then, and only then, can you move forward to a place of healing, because any time this person is able to initiate contact with you, it will cause triggers which may pull you back into another cycle of abuse, which in turn will destroy any sort of self-esteeming activities you may have done up to that point. No Contact is the only first step which can lead to healing – but even that is difficult in itself. Basically, it’s making the decision to do what you need to do to get away from that person and making the commitment to heal yourself.

      1. Mish

        Thank you Kim
        Thank you Angela and Sandy
        It has already been one month of no contact. Now I will push myself to another month. I started keeping a journal. I call it my book of positive thoughts. I do not write anything of a negative nature in there. It helps. I have never taken drugs in my life. But to me it almost feels as if I’m an addict. I was addicted to the cycle. Almost like chasing that high the person put me on. And the more I chase it the further away it goes. Sometimes it came back giving temporary relief. And boom. Taken away again. Giving and taking away affection, love caring. The basic needs of any person in a relationship. I see it almost like a way of controlling the next person. Well. I wake up now daily just giving thanks that I have my freedom. And also saying to myself that not all people are like this and someday I will be able to trust again.

        So if I may leave some words with everyone tonight which I wrote down in my journal this morning, perhaps it will mean something to someone who reads these words.
        – Let go and let God
        – Release
        – Find inner peace
        – Exhale
        – Life is beautiful
        – I am empowered
        – Appreciation
        – All is well with me

        This will be a battle for me every day until I can someday think of this person and feel no emotion and no desire.
        This will be the forum I come to when I feel myself slipping again.
        Your responses left me teary eyed. I never expected anyone to reply.

        This person has almost destroyed me. I lost my direction in life. Lost myself. But by being weak means I have been destroyed and he gets the pleasure out of the situation. I will not allow this further.

        One day at a time. One step at a time. Every day. Until I’m healed. I have come too far in life and worked too hard in my career to let one person come and destroy what I have built. I need to stop being busy in my head and get up and start moving. Surround myself with people who care.

        Please everyone. Please. Get out. Get up and start moving on with your lives. I will try my utmost for another 30 days. And will keep you posted regards my progress. I will still need you through my process.

        Thank you thank you thank you Kim for this site.

        Regards to all

        1. Mish, you are a survivor! Surely one of the things a narcissist must hate most is seeing yet another person has finally figured them out. May their pool of potential victims ever dwindle before their eyes…

        2. Angela

          I was going to update my original comment, but am unable to find it. Hopefully someone will respond to my newest struggle and be able to help.
          Admittedly, I have access to my N’s FB, even though he blocked me, and I have access to all of his dating site profiles. I have gone no contact, but he’s done with me, so I don’t think I needed to.
          He must’ve lost his side flings when we ended, because I can literally watch him trying to desperately get hook ups or going for something more significant…like a new source. His hookups are ALWAYS called Babe or Baby and he can get their numbers in about 10 or fewer comments…it’s uncanny!!! He of course reads the profiles and says just the right thing to the women he wants to at least meet in person. He says things to them that I said to him during our 3 years…that’s so annoying to me!! I just want to scream and say, “that’s OUR memory, we said that to each other!” I know it’s stalking him…border line crazy behavior, but our relationship sort of lent itself to me figuring out what was really happening in his life by sneaking around through technology….and to be honest…he GAVE me his password so I would help him with a college class. He has the same password for everything!
          Ok, that doesn’t make it better….but that’s why I need some advice. I’m 2 months out…but still watching what he does. He doesn’t know I can see of course, I have no idea if he’s tried to contact me, because he is blocked from every piece of my life.
          WHY do I want him to miss me so bad it hurts? Is it because of the pattern? Love me, ignore me, beg me back…I got so used to it, it’s like I’m waiting around for the begging me back stage. He told me I was his everything and that no woman would ever love him like I did. Now he tells the new women that he was such a good man that I loved him so much I wouldn’t let go…that IS NOT how it went. But WHO CARES! I wouldn’t take him back anyway, there isn’t one memory I can think of in the past 3 years that didn’t go wonderfully because of crazy over the top effort from me, or go horribly wrong because of something that was blamed on me. I wouldn’t go through another silent treatment from a grown man if I was paid for it…so WHY do I watch? Why am I sad that the new women will be better for him than I was and somehow they’ll find love together…the love I wanted so badly to share with him. I need something to help me get on with the no contact from me. I need to not care if he falls head over hills in love. I just really don’t understand how when he says our lines or when he talks to a woman with my name or when he suggests they go and do the same dates we did…dates that were my idea, how he doesn’t miss me. How he could want these women to give him the same things I gave…like he didn’t have it all plus some. I’m struggling! !

  66. Mish

    I’m trying to heal. I’m trying so hard to heal. Every day I try and find joy within myself. Confused, hurt, angry and sad. In a relationship for just over two years. One moment hearing the words I love you. You are the best thing that happened in my life. And then without warning the silent treatment for weeks on end. Usually same pattern. Me trying to fix things. Trying to talk. Him not responding. Then weeks later he shows up again. Pulling me back in with sweet words. And it lasted only a few days. Longest two weeks. The anger is coming from the fact that in the close loving moments he said. Don’t give up on me. But turning around and saying he does not want me and I won’t accept things. Saying he is chatting with an ex again and not sure where that is going. As if he was not involved with me at all. Lies. Lies and more lies. And when confronting him I get the blame. I can’t think of a single fight I picked with him. Always from his side. The list is too long. But, whooing me for a full week about his love for me. How we will spend the weekend together. When the weekend came he switched his phone off. Sometimes I would call to say hello and for no reason he would throw the phone down while I was still talking. He once took me by my arm. Led me to the front door with my bag. Shoved me out the door and slammed it in my face. I stood there in shock. Got in my car and drove off.
    Later got a text from him saying. Do you honestly think I want to spend my morning around you. I have better things to do.
    I once asked him about our future. Where are we heading. As it has been two years at that stage. His answer to me was. If you ever ask me again I will chase you away from my house like a dog.

    I have seen messages from other women on his phone. Confronted him. And lies. And it seems it always is an ex-girlfriend. All are ex-girlfriends.

    It is just the anger. The hurt. One week he says he loves me. We need to spend time. The following week anger. Saying I won’t accept that he does not want me.

    Total confusion. He bombards me with the most loving messages then chases me away.
    Up and down for two years. I’m so tired. I have no energy left. It has been a month since we last spoke. I sent him a message to tell him what he is doing to me is not okay anymore. And I won’t accept lies. I won’t accept other females in my space.

    I’m broken. I want to heal. I want to get on with my life. A while back he also stopped talking to me and I was doing well. Then he showed up again with promises. This time I need to break free from him for good. I’m afraid. I’m afraid of feeling pain again. It is crippling. I have spent many hours in my room just busy in my head not realizing that the hours and days are passing me by. Almost having to hope.

    Thank you for this site. I appreciate each and every person on here. Only you will know what I’m going through. And each time you get thrown away it is worse than last time. This time he openly spoke about his interest in someone else. I feel used. I feel USED!!!!!! This has been the most humiliating experience of my life. I shared myself with someone who used me. I feel worthless…… Like filth…

    1. Kim Saeed

      I can relate to what you’ve described, Mish. I wish there were an easy way out of this, but each of us has to walk the path to healing. It’s a transformation, really, and in the beginning it will be very hard. As I mentioned in my other response, you’ll need to go full No Contact with this person. There’s no way to keep them in our lives because they will only continue to manipulate us and cause tremendous grief and pain. Go No Contact, work through the grief, and be your own advocate in regards to healing. Protect yourself from that person as if your life depends on it…because it does. Wishing you all the very best <3

    2. Mish-HE is the worthless one. The fact he believes it is OK to treat someone the terrible way he treats you is proof that his moral code is the filth. It hurts, terribly, and you desperately need to take Kim’s advice and never speak to him again, but for sure you must remember YOU ARE the good and positive person… it is he who is the worthless zero! Don’t let him have even one more tiny piece of you!

    3. Angela

      Oh how I hope this site has helped you in the same way I couldn’t have imagined it would help me. I think once you’ve been here and are able to read the other stories that are so similar it’s like reading your life, you’re one step closer to healing. I pray that you know you are worth so much more than what he was willing to give. I found hope in reading and understanding that they don’t love the same way we do…we’re just what they love for the little bit while it either helps them gain something or makes them look better. Stay strong and go no contact. It gets easier every day. I found that every time I wanted to check up on him or hope that he missed me that I needed a distraction. Find what works for you. I hope you heal from this and find new reasons to smile every day!! ☺

      1. Anonymous

        You are right Sandy. They don’t have emotions the way we do which is why it’s so easy to stay with a narc. We assume they are capable of love and honest emotions but they simply aren’t. I never got the silent treatment for long. Long enough for him to cheat for a weekend because I had the nerve to leave him to visit a friend. I was punished for having others in my life. I seriously don’t believe they miss us. They miss having a warm body to manipulate. No contact.

  67. Jesse

    I was hoping someone could give me an objective opinion about a recent contact with my ex/narc. I realize I might be in a bit of a “fog” about it.

    Our relationship had been textbook, from start to finish – the cycle, abuse, smear campaign, etc. I went No Contact a little over a year ago and have been doing very well.

    A few days ago, I got a message from the narc through facebook (we aren’t friends but I had not blocked her). For some reason, I couldn’t open the message, I was only able to read the beginning portion that is displayed in the in-box. It read, “I still f***ing hate your a.” I’m assuming the last word is “ass.” She must have caught me at a weak moment because I replied and asked her to re-send the message since it would not open. (I was SO curious as to what she could possibly have to say after an entire year had elapsed. It is dumbfounding how a grown adult could be so immature as to send that type of a message, especially unprovoked.) Days later, she responded, “It was a misfire. Hope you’re doing well.” Then she IMMEDIATELY blocked me on facebook.

    I can see clearly that it was just her way of baiting me to respond so she could slam a door in my face. I am fully aware of the ‘rinse-and-repeat’ cycle but the totality of this interaction was so brief. Why would she go to all the trouble for what had to have been such a very small and short-lived piece of gratification?? And after an entire year?? Can she be SO grandiose that she’d assume I (who had not contacted her AT ALL in over a year) would be hooked so easily and by such a small ploy after all this time? (It’s kind of insulting!)
    To save myself this hiccup in the future, I deactivated my facebook account. Clearly, one can never be too careful and I don’t want to leave myself open for any weak moments in the future. Luckily, I changed my phone number months ago and she has been blocked on my email since last year.

    Thanks for the help 🙂

    1. Kim Saeed

      It clearly was NOT a misfire. As we all know, when you want to message someone on FB, you have to go in and deliberately choose them in the message box.

      She just wanted to see if the message would go through, i.e., to see if you’d blocked her. Since you responded, she got her little power/ego trip by going in and immediately blocking you, instead. Apparently, she feels out of control in one way or the other and needed a power boost.

  68. Shelly

    Hi, my name is Shelly, I met my narc about four months ago online. I never knew people like this existed. He was the perfect man, intelligent, kind, handsome, accomplished. He turned my life upside down in record time, he could not get enough of me and we saw eachother four days straight. He said we had special chemistry, there was something very special between us. I fell hook, line and sinker!! The disappearing began immediately , I did not understand this and ask him why he was not seeing me, then the devalue stage began, then calling me names. I went as far as to catfish him online and met him without him knowing it was me, that was a fight to remember, he called me every horrible name and spit on me. However, he proceeded to text me and tell me I was “good” in being able to catch him cheating. He was able to draw me back in told me he was proud of me for doing that because no one had ever caught him before! Weird!
    This continued on for weeks of the disappearing, no contact from him, won’t give me his time and escalated to very sexual texting and wanting me to send pics and so on. I did refuse sending texts and the verbal abuse began.
    This finally ended with him texting me he was a whore and wanted to have sex with my friend he just met, however he was busy all week and would not be able to see me
    I called him and told him never to talk to me again and that he was a sick man! He blocked me, but I’m terrified of him returning.
    It has been 6 days, I’m feeling strong but just simply feel beat up, this has shaken me I just did not realize the evil in this world!
    Thank you for listening.

  69. Jordan

    @Kim……..Check this out! I saw her again! she showed up at this same fitness place we both frequent, but at a time when she knew I would be there. We talked for a little bit and kept it friendly, but no plans were made or anything. But if she’s trying to blow me off by ignoring me like I don’t exist these last few weeks, why would she show up at a time slot slot when I’m always there?? This is really confusing because it felt deliberate even though she acted aloof and matter of fact like. I was doing really well putting her on the backburner in my mind, but I “conveniently” saw her and all these emotions are welling up again.

    What is she trying to accomplish? I kept my composure and didn’t act desperate or eager. She did make a joke about something that she attributed to being happy to see me. What is her modus operandi? Just to mess with me and keep me around like a toy in case she gets bored? I’m not the weak minded or stalking type mind you, and I think that my restraint is actually keeping her going. All I can say that for a middle aged woman, she’s showing behavior patterns that remind me of tactics utilized by high school girls.

    1. Anonymous

      Yes, this behavior is like high school because many of these people have stunted emotional growth. Mine had alcohol and drug abuse. Cheated repeatedly for four years but I accepted it because I knew he was emotionally stunted and if only I could show him what real love is, his behavior would change. Finally, realized he is a narc who only knows how to play games to get his ego stroked. Winning you back after punishing you is part of the cycle. Just when you begin to heal, they show back up, you let them in a little and you’re back to square one. These people will always play what we feel are high school games. They have no emotionally maturity, compassion, NOTHING. They don’t care one iota for anyone but themselves. They come back when their supply of other women or men run out.

  70. Disillusioned

    I’ve been getting the silent treatment for 10 weeks now and twice in the last week it has really hurt. He saw me at work and took an extra long way round to avoid even coming close. Then yesterday I was with several colleagues at the entrance to a building and he got out his car with his new woman and her child, she walked past me more or less stopped – smiled at me and paused while he went another diversion to avoid even acknowledging me. I don’t know what was worse her smiling and looking so pleased with herself or him ignoring me. I also feel bad as I had the hospital this week and texted him afterwards asking to talk to him as his behaviour and silence have had an impact on my health, the consultant told me emotional stress is a big trigger and although I have started looking for another job it isn’t going to be quick so I am going to see him at work (even when I’ve tried to stay away from areas I know he might be In at certain times, like the coffee shops) and his avoidance and ignoring me is stressing me, I know I shouldn’t let it, but it does. I feel like I am dead to him, of no consequence that he can’t even acknowledge me in passing, friends ask me why I’d even want to acknowledge him after his lying and cheating but I hate the sense of anger and discord and the look of contempt he throws me. I had no idea silence would be worse than when he used to put me down, for not being good at my job, not being a good parent (two things I know I am good at!) to everything else he decided was wrong about me, speaking too slow, being too emotional, making him ill with migraines when I was really ill with health flare up (hospital visit recently is just part ongoing treatment for long term health problem). With the silence of the last 3 months I can see more clearly the devalue stage when he was clearly getting involved with this other woman, another person at work, who he told me he only started seeing end of march when I was on a business trip, I’ve worked out this was not the start, and I don’t think anyone moves in with someone with her child 4 weeks after starting seeing them! Esp when she was married too.. The lies now the silence. It is serving me no purpose to dwell on his current set up, his previous lies and deceit, my recall now of actually how badly he treated me but made me believe it was my fault, if I didn’t do this or the other, or if I could only do this or the other. I feel my head has been through an emotional mangle. But silence is a hard one when I was not the one to lie, deceive and cheat. At least now when I recall some of his strange tales I can laugh at how ridiculous they were – like the woman he pretended to have an affair with because she wanted to pursue woman outwith her marriage. And I thought that was noble to do that for a friend! Foolish me….

  71. Will

    I’m in a situation now where shes slowly left me. She started by telling me months ago we see each other too much, meanwhile this was a long distance relationship,, and only saw each other on the weekends…
    She slowly over the months backed off, no “I love you’s” or “miss you’s” for the last 5 mths.
    I was initiating contact for the last month or 2, but she would at least reply. Finally the infamous silent treatment. I don’t beat down her door, plea or beg, I’m too old for that nonsense, but I’ve been reaching out once a week via text. I’ll sometimes get a reply and other times I won’t. Usually when I tell her we need to talk about stuff, she doesnt respond, so I sit back and soak it all in.
    I’m not sure what to do at this point… I’m not sure if we’re broken up or if she needs space from me. When this all happened, she did tell me she needed a free ‘weekend’ to think about things, but it’s been 6 weeks now without seeing her, a cpl phone conversations, and a handful of text msgs. I’ve haven’t asked her to meet, so maybe thats the problem, but I simply don’t want to see her because It hurts for one, and it’ll set me back… another reason is her narcissistic/sociopath behavior makes me feel if I reach out like that she may use my reaching out as feeding her ego… I would appreciate any advice,I care for the girl, but this 12th grade high school sh!t doesn’t fly well with me. Please help, thanks.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi Will. I’m sorry to learn of your challenges with this woman.

      I know this feels awful, but the best thing you can do in your situation is walk away…and mean it. It seems to me she is playing with your feelings and stringing you along. It may be that her knowing you still care about her is feeding her ego, as you so aptly observed. With that being said, you may want to experiment with some exercises and grounding techniques to help with PTSD triggers.

      Wishing you the best of luck…

      1. Will

        Thanks Kim. Though my brain says run away from this, I’m a committed guy, and i guess my heart keeps tripping me up. I guess waiting so long to find someone like her (attraction and connection at least on my part), it’s hard to let go… but I guess theres no alternative as I ‘can’t make her love me’, as the saying goes.
        I’m normally not this pathetic and blind/stupid, I just feel like I want to settle down with someone and thought she might be the one.

    2. Jordan

      Do you think that she’s a narcissist, or is she perhaps ending the relationship and using the silent treatment as a way out? My girlfriend — or ex girlfriend at this point — uses the silent treatment as a means to punish me and devalue me, but she always comes back in the end as if nothing ever happened. Has your experience been similar? She often resorts to zingers like “you just don’t get me”, or “I give people enough rope and they’ll usually hang themselves”. In other words, in her distorted world, men are predictable inanimate objects who invariably will let her down, so according to her rationale, playing with someone’s emotions just proves her point of how “stupid men really are”. Have you heard similar things coming out of her mouth?

      Remember that to the narcissist you are a source of fuel that feeds their empty battery, so be on the lookout for that hot and cold routine. It sounds like your girl was trying to just dump you, but I could be wrong. I’ve experienced several silent treatment episodes in which I would have bet my last, bottom dollar that I would never see her again as the result of her abrupt cease and desist moves. ………..but she always came back….sometimes with more zeal. Look for that yo yo pattern with narcissists. She mentioned a long time ago that I was very “good at figuring her out” and “stronger than most guys”; this immediately sounded the alarm bells that she’s probably a head game player extraordinaire.

      1. Will

        HI Jordan, thanks for writing – I thought about this as well, and yes I do believe she ‘dumped’ me because to put it bluntly, shes shallow in every aspect… Her ending it wasn’t a surprise necessarily, as it was a surprise more that the silent treatment was implemented out of the blue. I’ve seen her over the course of the relationship feed off of old boyfriends and guys who’d contact her, and once she gets her ‘feeding’ of confidence, she’d pick out things with me she didn’t like, that these other guys may have or do. I noticed these patterns throughout the relationship… as a matter of fact, when she started to act ‘cold’ towards me, suddenly her phone went hidden. Just to reference, I’m not an insecure person, but I do pick up on patterns.
        I myself had episodes where she would get so distant like your girl, but she wouldn’t go without a day of not talking. I would think to myself that she’s going to breakup, but suddenly shed snap-back, fairly quickly. She went through a divorce (husband left her), and that really put a hurting on her ego, as she was a princess her whole life. After her divorce I know for a fact that there were guys she was talking to who weren’t as interested in her, and that further bruised her ego.
        When I met her, it was fast love because I gave her caring attention. I can see now it wasn’t real love, at least on her part. She used me to get out of her ‘funk’, and when things started looking better for her (better job, better living situation, guys paying attention to her again) she got her arrogance back and figured she could do ‘better’. So throughout our relationship, I do believe those hot and cold tendencies you mentioned were there. I know she has a few guys she’d talk to behind my back, not sure of the intent, but I know how most guys are.. anyway I’d confront her, and she lie to me and say she doesnt talk to other guys at all, even as friends (red-flag). Another personality trait of hers is she has a sense of entitlement too, and likes to judge others. She doesn’t have close friends with girls because she doesn’t like the way they are (she admitted that). Lastly, she has a ‘daddy’ complex… she hasn’t spoke to her dad in years, and when he calls, she uses that as an ego-boost, and she never calls him back.

        Maybe there’s sociopath tendencies in there? Maybe this helps narrow things down, but she hasn’t contacted me at all in weeks, even when I tell her that we should talk about things. Any thoughts from you guys would be great.

    3. Jordan

      Interesting, especially what you mentioned about her lack of any real close female friends. My girlfriend is similar in that aspect; she’s very critical of other women and I assume that it’s rooted in some deep seated fear of having to compete. She’ll sever ties with female friends at the drop of a hat if she feels that she has been wronged. People in her life have to serve a purpose and she gets bored easy with her “friends” , At the same time, she’s very charming and attractive, and very successful in her career in addition to having amassed a sizeable nest egg – she’s doing something right I guess…lol

      1. Will

        My girl wasn’t charming at all, as a matter of fact everyone who met her told me she’s a bit cold and a bit arrogant’.

        Jordan, you GF sounds shes has a bit of sociopath type tendencies from what you wrote. Her brown nosing to get something, and when someone gets her riled-up her only joy is to put them down.

        My buddy had a extremely good looking girlfriend years ago. The type that used her looks to get guys to buy her stuff, and she was the same.. These chicks…. I swear they arent worth the time and aggravation…

    4. Jordan

      I don’t know about being an overt sociopath, but she definitely has narcissistic tendencies. She lacks a bit of empathy, compassion, and unconditional love. She wants everything to be perfect on my end emotionally, because sharing emotional hardships with her can fall on deaf ears at times.

      She doesn’t use people to “buy her stuff” since she prides herself on her successful career and accomplishments….very independent and self sufficient. That’s what’s actually attractive about her to be honest.

      1. Will

        Lack of empathy and compassion?… I had no idea that was a trait. wow good to know, because thats her #1 problem. She goes as far as making fun/putting down kids! very sad. Unconditional love as well…
        The more I type, the more it all makes sense. We all got issues to a degree, but these are toxic.
        Jordan – I think you should move-on, if I can be honest (as should I). We’re typing on a forum for people that knowingly abuse us mentally. I think anyone who writes here should heed all these other peoples advice and stories, and try to move-on. Our ‘Narcs” will only keep doing this to us, mainly because they think they’re right, they can never be wrong and we allow it. The only person that will neutralize their behavior is another Narc, who is passive and can ignore them even more.
        Here is a verse from the bible that opened my eyes.
        Proverbs 21:9 “It’s better to live alone in the corner of an attic than with a quarrelsome wife in a lovely home.”
        Even if you’re non-religious, take it as words of wisdom… it implies to women as well.

  72. Jordan

    Interesting article. My girlfriend who I don’t live with has been deploying the silent treatment on and off for years now, and I’m currently in the throes of another one of her spells. It’s been about two weeks now; I don’t attempt to text her, call her, or give into her games. I did see her recently in a large social setting, and she completely ignored me while carrying on talking to her friends. I was obvious that her intentions were hostile as opposed to feeling indifferent. She probably thought that I would come running after her clamoring for some attention or an explanation, but I walked the other way and didn’t see her leave the building. You don’t pull that $hit on me……too old for those arrested development tactics.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Good for you, Jordan! Your walking away without falling for her games was the best way to win that situation…even if that wasn’t your intention. I bet she stewed silently for the rest of the event.

      1. Jordan

        Probably. One thing I noticed about her as well is her peculiar interaction with female “friends”. She hangs out with some of them during social events or when working out, yet she complains about all of them. She nitpicks at their character flaws and what not when she’s actually the odd one. I’ve seen her circle of friends dwindle over the years, because if something doesn’t go her way she “writes people off”. She’s anything but conciliatory or forgiving. From outward appearances she looks like a classy and sophisticated woman, but it’s all a front to cover up her feeble ego. Very successful on the career front tho….I have to give her that.

  73. m

    Kim Saeed, I fear your response to Devastated may have given her hope to hang around ’til he comes back…only because that is what I would have taken away from it when in the same position.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi M. Thank you for sharing your perspective. I went back and read my reply, but I’m not sure which part may have given her hope to hang around. Perhaps you could explain? Thanks!

  74. Nicole

    Hi Kim, my fiancé of three years I feel is a narcissist. He would always put me down about my weight. I later had gastric sleeve surgery. Meanwhile he would get mad at me and give me the silent treatment for about a week at a time. It would drive me crazy. Then all of a sudden he would text after I gnored him. I decided to visit my family in Florida. He told me how much he was going to miss me and loved me. The day before i left he provoked a fight. I kept trying to text him and he tells me to leave him alone after a million texts of me pleading what have I done. Needless to say I have been crying my whole trip. This will be the first day I haven’t contacted him. I believe it’s with the help of your site:-) I’m just so confused and scared.

    Feeling hurt and abandoned

    1. Kim Saeed

      Nicole, I’m sorry you’re going through this. It’s undoubtedly one of the worst experiences in life.

      I hope you’ve been able to keep strong with NC and have started your healing journey. Thank you so much for your encouraging words about my blog. Wishing you the very best.


  75. fran

    The silent tx became a way of life for me for years, but it beat the alternative, of being cursed and called ugly names. I was unlovable, needy, unattractive, and lucky to have him. Or so he told me. I broke free cleanly with a restraining order when he threatened to burn the house down with me in it, or beat me to death and hide my body where nobody would ever find me. Because I had the nerve to tell him I wanted a divorce. I believed him. I filed for divorce three days later and never looked back. He made numerous attempts to contact me, paid people to harass and follow me, but I held firm and never spoke one word to him again. His family believed I was the crazy one, and ruined HIS life. He even convinced some of my own family, who had never seen his behavior, that I was evil. Still, I held firm. All his bitterness and hate for me, his belief that I was his property and had no right to walk away, led to his death I believe, of cardiac arrest a few years later. I still have anxiety attacks and occasional nightmares, and suffered from PTSD for some time, but have moved on with a loving kind man, and rebuilt my life. So can the rest of you! The key is a totally clean break, no matter what it takes, You can not reason with these people, or amicably separate. It is just not possible.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Fran, thank you so much for sharing your story. I’m sorry you endured all of that, but so happy to know you’ve moved on and have found a caring, loving partner. I hope your comment reaches other readers so they can know that freedom is possible <3

  76. Finally Awake

    After almost 25 years of marriage, I “woke up” during an abusive tantrum (for the grave sin of suggesting that perhaps another week-long escape on his sailboat when his daughter was gravely ill was not the best use of his time) and realized things were only going to continue to get worse. The week-long silent treatment that followed the tantrum was time I used to steel my resolve, and when he deigned to speak to me again (foiled by my failure to follow the script, in which I either begged him or blew up at him) I suggested that our upcoming move to another state would be the perfect time to set up separate households.

    Silly me, I didn’t know much about narcissism and how I would be punished. And how little I could trust anything that he said. Eight months have passed, almost 4 of which were spent in the same house. Some of those were spent in silence, others in what I thought was civility for the sake of our chronically ill teen and an understanding that I just was not able to cope with his underlying personality disorder on top of everything else on my plate. But it was all a carefully calculated plan. As soon as my daughter and I moved to another state, with his “blessing”, and he realized that none of his previous strategies to get me to drink the Kool-Aid and come back were going to work, the punishment began.

    Despite trying to convince me that we didn’t need attorneys, or mediators (and trying to get me to sign away my rights to his pension, and to the money he was able to save by spending all of the money I earned and received from my inheritance) he agreed to the broad terms of a settlement agreement which he graciously agreed to my paying an attorney to draft. He had no intention of signing it, though, and as soon as we left he claimed mental illness (of course, he never had a problem when I suggested it), sued me for desertion, and, despite the fact that I haven’t worked outside the home in over 20 years, is seeking alimony from me. He has also stolen thousands of dollars from our accounts, perpetrated tax fraud, and is seriously convinced, and spreading the word, that I just woke up one day, went crazy, and left him.

    So, my initial elation at liberating myself from years of gaslighting, contempt, etc. has now turned to sadness for my daughter, who he is willing to abandon and hurt in his quest to punish me. It may have taken me way too long to leave, but it didn’t take me long at all to “get” no contact, and I can vouch for its effectiveness. It is perplexing and infuriating for him not to get a rise out of me, and I anticipate that soon he will stop trying.

    Thank you for the Web site, and your testimony. For those of you who are dating, or newly married, please, if you recognize your partner in these pages, run. And for those of you married for a long time, it’s never too late to reclaim your life. I’ve got a long way to go, and a lot of healing to do, but it will be MY life, and it will be real.

  77. Wanna Run

    Tonight is night one. I knew I had no choice but to leave her. For so long I have wanted more than she is willing or wanting to give.

    Our arguments typically revolve around either how I feel lonely and she’s never there or my “behavior” after she completely shuts off, ignores me, won’t respond for days.

    I’ve never felt this way. I’m a good looking guy, successful, and up until this relationship I think I had a really nice friendly personality. The past 2-3 years have been a downward spiral. I let a really good relationship go, which I regret, and jumped into a new one with a young hot twenty something narcissist, accomplished, and ambitious. But it’s been made clear over and over I’m her last priority.

    So tonight I’m lonely, but I’m always lonely. It’s strange. I only see her maybe 5-6 hours a month. So it’s not that big of a hole in my life in terms of filling. Perhaps when you go from having a relationship where the girl is your best friend, you hang out always, to one where it’s hot and heavy at first but slowly becomes just pain and punishment. Even those 5-6 hours become so valuable even though they come at the price of so much pain.

    I know this is what I need to do.

    Lies. White lies. Always last priority. Never there. Silent treatment.

    I’m ashamed. I’ve done things I never would have imagined… before she came into my life, took my hand, and guided me slowly to such a dark and scary place.

    I’m sorry girl I let go. You were the keeper. I just didn’t realize it until you had moved on. 🙁

  78. Sarah

    The narcissist in my life is my mother. My father left when I was a child because he could no longer stand her and said she was crazy. I hardly ever got to see him again. When it was visitation time, she would pick a fight with him and end result, we did not get to go with him. We saw less and less of him as time went on. I found out later in life when I reached out to him that just for the sake of us children that he just gave up knowing that she would make our life a living hell. She fought tooth and nail that he was not able to see us. She told us that he said that if he could not have her, he did not want us either. I invited him to my graduation and she would not talk to me for months on end. I was the scapegoat, my sister the golden child and my brother with whom I was very close to was the lost child. My brother left and lived with neighbors and who ever would accommodate him. It broke my heart. I did everything that I could to make her love me, but that love never came. Here I sit writing this and currently have the silent treatment over my head. It has been a month now. My mom has cancer and she does not have much time left. Her birthday was on May 9th. My sister and step-father had a party for her. I was never invited. My mom contacted me to let me know that her cake was excellent and everybody was there. I made the mistake of saying no – not everybody was there, I was not invited. She told me to not be upset and to get over it. I guess the first mistake was not going to my sister’s for Easter this year. It was our anniversary and I let everyone know in advance that we were making plans for that weekend. My husband works 7 days a week almost 365 days a year and when he has time off, which is not very often, he wanted to take me away to enjoy myself. Anyway, I would have thought she would have learned the hard way with her silent treatment. It is 3 years now since my brother passed away. He was so young and he passed away during one of her silent treatments which spanned a year. She holds grudges for eternity this one.. I would have thought she would have been a changed person after my brother’s death, but NO. She inherited all of my brother’s estate which was rather large. I wanted my brother’s car. I always loved it. The most beautiful car ever for me. My brother had a brand new home with several acres. She gave that to my sister and did not charge her a dime. She said I could have the car for $3,000. I paid it and then she tried to say she gave it to me. I carried the cancel check with me just to prove to her that I paid for it.So here I sit being punished once again. I sent her a few texts, and she will not respond. I hate to say it, but I am not going to pursue her any longer. She made her bed, now she can lay in it. I am pretty much done with her. She let me know that I am cut out of the Will and I let her know that I did not care. I do not care for materialistic things and I think that made her mad because I did not react and I just said so what, I did not expect anything from you anyway. Time for me to live my life and be happy once and for all. Oh, the stories I could tell about what she has done to me. I tell people and their mouths drop wide open. My mother was never ashamed, in fact, she would brag how she punished me. She made Joan Crawford in Mommy Dearest look like mother of the year.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Sarah, thank you for sharing your story. Please don’t feel guilty for moving on. I’ve had many people reach out to share stories of cutting ties with their parents…they had to do it for their own survival. I know it hurts now, but later you will feel glad that you did it, especially that you won’t have to worry about being punished when she’s unhappy about something.

      Wishing you all the very best.

  79. Lucy

    I was dumped by the silent treatment nearly a month ago and it really pains me because I had only gone out for this man for a short time so I wasn’t too invested in the relationship, but everything was absolutely perfect, and then just radio silence. And it’s been tormenting me all this time because all I want is a reason! And I’m embarrassed because obviously at first I didn’t realise I had been dumped, so I texted him as normal, but then when I realised he was just ignoring me I felt like I should just spam him with texts to annoy him. I have no idea why I seemed to think this was a solution but it’s now really embarrassing but I just can’t seem to get over him because I have absolutely no idea why he stopped talking to me!!! This article is really true in my opinion, thank you

  80. HMX

    This article exactly describes my life. For the past four years. Being driven crazy, him saying things to me that were so obviously about himself it blew my mind how much sense I could try to talk into him and how it would get absolutely nowhere. He would work me into a frenzy, and by giving me the silent treatment and leaving for very long periods of time while ignoring me, he could claim to people that I was the “abusive” one, or that my attempts to contact him were me “bullying” or trying to “control” him. He tried to diagnose me with every personality disorder under the sun. To the point of torturing me by reading the “traits” of each one I supposedly had out loud while I cried and asked him to stop. I have had psych evals before and the only thing I have is ADHD, which I take medication for. I feel that he has always taken advantage of my ADHD and purposely triggers me using the weaknesses of a person with such condition. He even calls his bouts of leaving and ignoring me “time outs”!!! When I saw that exact same phrase in this article, I though, “Oh my God.” He ignores me and turns off his phone constantly and has brainwashed me into believing that it is all MY choice what he does. It is contingent upon MY reactions to how he treats me and my words whether or not he ignores me. But it isn’t. I can tell you that over these four years, I have tried to handle things EVERY way I possibly could think of. Every ridiculous demand he made of how I had to be calm and “reasonable” at all times no matter what he was doing to me – I tried. I couldn’t succeed. He is currently punishing me for losing my patience with him because he hangs up every time I try to talk to him. We have a 7 month old daughter together and we need help around the house. He is the only one of us who drives and I don’t have family to help me out (he does) and I don’t have income. I feel like he also took advantage of my position in life when we began our relationship. I grew up in foster care and as I said, have no family, no income, and can’t drive. He knows we are dependent on him and it makes it pretty much impossible for me to leave him. He constantly threatens to take our baby away from me and has been doing so ever since she was about 2 months old because he couldn’t handle me being post-partum and post c-section and taking care of the baby all by myself so that he could work on the house. He spends way too much time with one of mutual (male) friends and his friend’s 10 year old daughter. I feel like he often puts on a “really great guy” charming, smarmy persona especially with other people’s children. Then he is quick to judge everyone’s parenting skills. He ignores me when I tell him our baby needs formula, etc and if I ever need anything, forget it. I started having to go through his father to get anything done. And I was punished for that by my husband as well. One thing that has been destroying us is his denial about his porn addiction. He lies, he has never stopped doing it, and he tries to call me “crazy”, “delusional” and actually claims I’M a narcissist! He refuses to talk about it, and he sometimes admits to it but many other times pretends he doesn’t know what I’m talking about. It’s ridiculous. He has seen what it has done to me and that was never enough to make him stop. I tried every way possible of reacting to it. Nothing works for him, except for me to pretend it’s not happening .Which I’m sorry, I can’t!!! The most confusing part for me is that there is nothing lacking in our sex life that would make him turn to that. We were always dynamite together, seemed to have this crazy deep spiritual connection. “So much in common”. He says I’m the most beautiful woman he has ever seen and I’m all he wants. But he won’t stop watching porn, hiding it and lying about it. He doesn’t understand why i don’t just “get over it”. Going back to the “so much in common” and “profound connection” part, he admitted earlier in the relationship that when we first met, he was “mirroring” me. I had noticed in more recent years that he would do this thing where if I would try to address something he had done to hurt me, or anything about him that was problematic to the relationship, he would turn it around on me and say “No, that’s what YOU do.” It got me into a very bad habit of over-explaining myself to him which I think enabled him to better exploit and control me. I noticed more and more that things I had said to him, he started claiming in reverse. Same words, phrases, etc. I have a natural knack for understanding things of emotional and psychological nature, and when I first met him he only knew things of this nature from what he read in textbooks or self-help books. His favorite kind of books to have around, these ones he would rave about and try to get me interested in reading (I wasn’t and never read them) were ones like “The Art of War” and “How do get anyone to do anything you want”. He was always fascinated with books on how to manipulate people. He has labels for everything I do, claims everything I do is a “ploy” or that I’M “manipulating” HIM. I don’t know how to do those kinds of things! If I ever even woke up one day and had the desire to do so, my ADHD is way too sever to carry out a psychological game plan. I express myself honestly, I say what I really think, I let it be known how i really feel. And then he uses that against me, saying I have no self control and that I try to “start shit” with him, or “berate” him. He has mocked me when I’ve been crying and vulnerable, so much so that I became very tough and tried to be intimidating in order to kind of protect myself, he used my ADHD to his advantage by pushing me verbally until I lashed out physically from being overwhelmed. Then he went and told his family that I was abusing him and bullying him. This is the same guy who would often grab me by my throat, twist me like a pretzel (knowing of my mild scoliosis – bc I needed a breast reduction and had one in 2012), push me to the ground and hold me there asking me in a condescending voice, “Are you going to behave?” and I would be begging him to let me go and he wouldn’t until he decided it was time to. He claimed he was “restraining” me. Even though I have never been able to inflict physical damage on him the way he has been able to do to me. I’m a 5’4” 23 year old woman and he is a 5’9” 34 year old man. Other times, he would do the same thing except he would sit on my chest, stare into my eyes (his eyes would be wide and crazy looking as if he were someone else) and he would be GRINNING at me. Saying messed up things in a condescending tone, even choking me. I have had to fight him off many times from literally suffocating me. I’m not exaggerating when I say I almost lost my life. But I always felt like I probably deserved it because I was outspoken or lost my temper or I made a move at him first. I will always regret lashing out at him, it’s something that haunts me and something I’m sorry for ever doing. But I can’t help but to think if I hadn’t been screwed with so badly, it wouldn’t have happened. I had no history of ever hitting people (only once or twice after someone swung at me first) and he has a history of scaring his ex girlfriends so bad that they broke up with him and avoided him like the plague. But he has me convinced that deep down he’s a good, sensitive guy. And he was the best guy in the world at times. Sometimes he seemed so sweet and loving and I feel like it’s my fault because all I have to do is not have a problem with the stuff he does and if I’m nicey-nice to him he will come back. But I can’t then ever ask him what he has been doing or tell him how I feel or he will leave again. I also know somewhere within myself that it’s not in my control, whether or not he does this crap, he just wants me to feel the burden and the guilt over not being “good enough”. I feel so confused. I’m sorry for my rambling on. I just want to add that his whole deal with spending too much time with his (well, our mutual friend technically) is because our friend is “pleasant to be around”. I tried to get through to him
    that OF COURSE this guy is “pleasant to be around”, you’re not treating him the way you treat me, you’re not screwing him over, in fact you are screwing me and our child over by neglecting our needs so you can drive him and his kid and his gf wherever they want or need to go! (Our friend is 37 and I forget why but his license has been suspended for years so he can’t drive). I always knew that my reactions had to do with his treatment of me but he kept denying. He told me I wasn’t taking responsibility for my actions and that I was just blaming him, and that if I can blame MY actions on him, then he can blame his on me. (That is one of the things he does that makes my brain feel like it is going to burst out of my forehead!!!) But I am so relieved to see in this article a confirmation of what I always felt = that I’m in perpetual “fight or flight” mode. Here is something else though – I feel that I would not be so messed up and feeling out of control if his treatment of me didn’t involve depriving my child and I of things we need! I have been left to starve, especially postpartum, I have been left without medication for my ADHD as well, we have run out of heating oil and I had to get ahold of his father for anything to be done about it (his father is the one supporting all three of us financially, my husband has an online job but doesn’t do it. He claims I won’t “let him” bc he had previously used “needing to concentrate on his job” as an excuse to leave me for hours and days – even when we were on good terms and even when I was pregnant! – go to his parents house, and watch porn for hours! He’d be there 14 hours, literally, and I would ask how many hours of work he did and he would say something like 2. He would come up with excuses, vague explanations, and if I didn’t buy it or asked further questions he would pull the typical “I don’t have time for this” or tell me “I don’t need to explain myself to you!” and hang up, and ignore me. Even when I sent him sweet messages he ignored me.) and I’ve been left without things our baby needs too. Just recently he finally did laundry for us (we don’t have a washer and dryer and I couldn’t go to the laundromat naked, of course) after MONTHS of being without clean clothing, pillows (really messed up my back) or clean bedding. I feel ashamed of my position in life, I feel embarrassed, I’m afraid of being judged because from being with him, I expect that everyone will have a very low opinion of me and tell me it’s my own fault and that he’s right or something. I feel so overwhelmed and confused. I am guilty of the almost compulsive messages and phone calls that I waste time and effort on every day just trying to get through to him. I am glad that my emotions, especially the frustration and extreme anger, are results of the affect of this treatment on the brain and not because I’m an “abusive bully” or some kind of personality disorder he has tried to tell me I have. Every other day it’s either “I love you I miss you I’m sorry” from him or it’s “I hate you, I’m going to “rescue” our child from you, you are a monster/sociopath”. I feel scared, I feel confused, I feel like anything I do or say will be twisted around or used against me and I can imagine if he ever saw what i’m writing, he would be scoffing at it and saying, “OMFG, that’s what YOU do” (he said that to me in a message last night.) The messages other people have posted here from their ex Narcissists were so familiar. I feel so lost and alone. I was always a strong person who knew exactly who they were. I was known for being unbreakable and resilient. Now I have been reduced to someone who feels crazy and unsure of themselves and always ends up repressing their feelings to just make it all go away .Temporarily though, because I am a person with real emotions and I can’t pretend nothing is wrong when something is very wrong. I don’t even know anymore. I just don’t know. I am so afraid that if I do “no contact” with him, he will just find someone else. I feel so confused. Sorry this was so long (I have learned to be very self-conscious and apologize for anything that has to do with my emotions especially when expressed in such “self-centered” manner and “way too long for anyone to want to read”. – that’s his opinion of it anyway). If someone could read this and tell me if these things fit the narcissist mode of operation, please let me know. I hardly know what to think anymore. Thanks.

  81. Ryan

    This is a great website and very helpful. Just getting out of the relationship with this Narcissist woman. I loved and cared so much for her. Often times I put her needs above mine. She was so sweet in the Idealization phase and then came the devaluation and the disccarding. she tested me about 3 months ago with the silent treatment for a week. Then things were OK for about 3 months. But about 2 weeks ago started the silent treatment again. Its been very hard on me. I sent her so many texts, phone calls and emails and no response. It is like I am dead to her. I guess it is a punishment she is giving me, But why would she punish me for loving her and caring so much for her? No Contact is the only way out for me, started it last week but failed after 2 days, but now started it again, on the 5th day.

  82. Sophia

    I guess I am one of the lucky ones, I escaped after only 6 months of relationship with a narcissist. We broke up 3 times. The last time it was my move – he made a rude comment about my past (something he had been jealous about and kept insulting me over many many times before) so I canceled the date we had, and called the whole thing off. He tried to persuade me that the comment he made was appropriate (in no way would he ever apologize) and when he saw it wasn’t working, he hung up on me, deleted me off facebook, and a few hours later he blocked me as well (not before leaving some mean messages). It’s been almost 2 weeks since, I didn’t hear from him again (nor did I try to contact him) and some of the time felt good, some of the time has been pure hell. Just a couple of days ago I had THE worse day yet, I started to miss him desperately and I cried all day. I was barely able to function. Just the next day after that, I have noticed he has unblocked me. I don’t know if I should ignore that completely, or if I should block him myself. Facebook was how we communicated most of the time that we weren’t together, so him blocking me was sort of a big deal, it was THE abandonment. I am afraid to leave the matter alone – I really don’t want to get sucked back into the emotional rollercoaster, and I know he is able to abuse me even from afar as long as we are in contact. I don’t really trust myself not to respond, should he write anything. However, blocking him now would kind of be tit for tat, revenge, immature, something I would never do with a regular ex. And it might show him that he is still important somehow.

    But if I am to be honest with myself, part of me craves for the good times, the validation I never had from him, and that is why I don’t trust myself not to respond if he says anything.

  83. enunez05

    I know how difficult it can be when letting go of the relationship you had wit the narc. It’s like that quote “Sometimes letting go takes more strength than holding on”. It’s been 3 months since I’ve been w him and There were times I’d ask myself, “When am I going to forget about him? Why can’t I move on?” but let me tell you it does eventually get better. (As dumb as it sounds) I’d find myself missing the narc and I had to train my mind to go back remember all the ugly things he said and did-His manipulations, lies, degrading insults, and I had to talk myself out of missing him by remembering how miserable I was and how toxic he is. Truth is he never cared about me only about himself, and no matter how much I loved him he was not capable of ever loving me back (And treating me the way I deserve) . Some people are only here for a season, not a lifetime, and you have to let the go. Otherwise, you can hold on and be miserable for a lifetime.It was a hard pill to swallow but i learned an important lesson behind it. I hope to eventually forgive him one day. Not for him, but for myself. I am just so glad that I’m slowly going back to being the strong minded independent woman that I was before (because I had totally lost myself). It was hard letting him go and at times I literally felt an ache in my heart and in the pit of my stomach. I still need some healing to do, HOWEVER, I’m SO MUCH HAPPIER NOW AND IN A MUCH BETTER PLACE!! Life goes on and my life is happily going on just fine and even better without him! I would’ve still been miserable, if I wouldve still been seeing him. Be strong!! Stay away from the narc! It will pay off in the long run?❤️??

  84. mel

    I have been with my nc for over 8 years and words cannot explain the pain that I’ve went through. I have 2 kids that he helped me raise but over the years it has gotten worse. This past year being the most destructive. I have studied nc and I know that I am deskingbeith one. The sad thing is is they fool u and once u realize what your dealing with your so far into it it makes u think your an idiot for not seeing the reality of it sooner. I have read the other posts and my story is very similar. I am inside my boys asleep while he is in garage as usual drinking listening to music and I’m sure on Facebook or texting …. I have caught him sexting one of his employees while very drunk and she is married. Although I Dont this k anything came of it and I confronted her and he said he regretted it and he was drunk I just Dont see how anyone could even think such things as to sext anyone let alone someone that works for u. The difference in my nc is he has money and uses that to yo yo me around. I have my own business Now as of 1 year ago but it still is growing and I can’t tell u how many days I struggle to just get out of bed. I am an attractive woman who’s self esteem is at the ultumate low he calls me fat which I am far from a hoar only thing I have to offer is a pretty face and big titts needless to say only 2 weeks ago he was so in love with me. Its like an emotional roller coaster and I just Dont know what to do anymore. There’s so much to my story I can only write the basics but it doesn’t take alot at all to set him off. I am an easy going person until he invites people over on a school night radio blasting while my kids are trying to sleep. He’s 39 and acts like a high school kid. He needs attention and makes sure everyone knows how much money he had. He calls me a user after 8 years of standing beside him through all his struggles.
    He accuses me of cheating constantly and I see myself sometimes saying the same things he says to me but only because I really feel like he is up to no good. And I have reason to believe this due to our past. I am lost I am hurt and he could ignore me for months if I didn’t break the silence but I’m tired of breaking the silence I’m tired of feeling so betrayed and lonely. I pray everyday that the lord change him he drinks everyday and I get the aftermath and everyone else gets the fun charming nice guy but behind closed doors its a different story. I pray that he is convicted of his wrongs because no one deserves to be treated so cruel. Like the other poster stated when its good its great but that is rare mostly its so bad all I do is cry myself to sleep on couch because he has the bedroom. Its sad and I’m in tears now. He makes sure everyone new friend knows I am this horrible person and so I have no friends while he has many I have no family here and his is a mile down street. Please pray for me this not how I predicted my life to be and I feel so trapped. Thanks for reading and godbless

  85. One positive aspect of the silent treatment (and disappearing acts, and myriad excuses for being unavailable) is after they’ve ignored you and left you alone in your heartache so many many times, when the cruel discard finally comes it really isn’t much more painful, and really you don’t miss them much more than you did already. Mine left me alone so many times that now since it’s over, it’s a lot like a long-distance loved one who I rarely got to see has died. You know they’ve died, but in the day-to-day reality of living your own life, nothing’s really changed or different…kudos to him for ignoring me to the point I didn’t need him anymore!
    More kudos for making sure any shred of love left in my heart for him (after eight years) was obliterated when he showed up to get his things with another woman by his side. A virtual knife to the heart is only one step away from the real thing…but they both feel about the same. How ironic that someone so full of himself would do such a bang up job of revealing what a despicable and treacherous soul-sucking black hole he is. I shudder to think what other capabilities lie hidden within him, and I count myself lucky that I won’t be his next decimated victim who finds out. If I didn’t think his head would swell three sizes larger, I’d thank him for destroying my few remaining positive opinions about him, I really would! Instead, I give my thanks and all the glory to God, who allowed me the fortitude to once and for all refuse to accept any more abuse. May he comfort and strengthen others who are struggling with similar pain. And I’m sorry I’ve yet to thank YOU Kim, for your information which has helped me immensely-thank you! I’ve learned so much here…

    1. Kim Saeed

      Thank you kindly for reading my post and for commenting, Sandy, but even more for letting me know my site has helped you in some way. I, too, had grown used to the silent treatments and, in fact, used one to escape to my own apartment that I’d reserved during yet a previous silent treatment. I’m so glad to know you’re out of that situation now. Wishing you all the very best in your journey of healing <3

      1. Kim, many around the web deal with this subject, but few and far between are the persons able to not only thoroughly identify, describe and empathize, but also patiently spell out so many different methods and effective measures to help us all break through (if only we listen). I think it’s safe to say the more injured we are (once we finally realize it and all the ugliness it entails), the harder we scour the web looking for answers and relief. There is a reason you have the following you do! Thank you for your warm response, and for the most remarkable way you turned your situation inside out and on its ear. You’ve emerged with such complete dedication and compassionate capacity to traipse back through our pain, drama and muck, in order to lead still suffering folks to a better way. Indeed, immensely you do help-me and countless others-learn how survive, so that we may reach as well!

    2. jarwithaheavylid

      Hi Sandy

      I feel the same about the narc in my life. He is married and we saw each other for 9 months before he left town, with his family soon to follow. The difference between a narc and a real person is that a real person feels remorse and once they regret playing around, they set you straight and don’t come back. It took me a lot of time to figure the unremorseful pattern out – but also because I had kicked him out twice.. perhaps to him it seemed we were competing at the same game. But I thought I loved him – and it is so new and raw and feel as if I still do, but that would be a sick love if I did. I’m working on disconnecting those feelings with no contact – which is tough under the circumstances.

      When I got pregnant.. that’s when the real ‘man’ came out. He’s an altruistic narcissist, so it’s a very tricky creature to spot, but slowly, over time, despite continuing to keep the door open, he started to discard me. Nobody does that to the person they ‘love’, their ‘true love’ when they’re pregnant. And with breaks for weeks at a time, complete with hoovering and ‘gifts’, it wasn’t so hard to tell him where to go when it suddenly hit me that this guy was the furthest guy from Prince Charming that could ever be. I still haven’t seen his dark side, but I do know that he’s not human – that he mimics other people – it’s like a script that he reads and a dance that he’s learnt, but he doesn’t really understand how to relate. And trying to buy me off got very tiring.

      Of course, he triangulated his wife and me. From the few things she has written to me, she has no idea about his narcissism – but she must be very, very psychologically sick. Very co-dependent. Very brainwashed. I can’t think she is stupid because it was only after my experience that it seems everyone has a narcissist in their life (my sister’s husband for 20 years, my good friend’s mother, another two good friends’ fathers). Narcissists are everywhere I look these days. Even my dog is narcissistic “ME ME ME ME ME ME ME”. My dog loves me because I attend to him. If I didn’t attend to him he would find someone else. Still, at least my dog doesn’t hoover and discard. The narcissist is lower than a dog.

      So now I’m about to become a sole parent – but I am much stronger for the experience. I have a few nice things from him and his money while he was attempting to buy control and persuasion, and I also have this beautiful being who I can pour the love I had for him into. The pure version of him. So at 42, I didn’t lose out at all. I got so much more out of it – and that’s the trick with narcissistic abuse – you NEED to find the silver lining. You NEED to empower yourself. You NEED to believe the experience with the non-human was always going to be. They are the biggest blessing of your life. You just don’t have to have anything to do with them anymore. They don’t care about you, their new lady, their old lady, their children. Why would anyone want such a vapid creature in their beautiful life?

      This site has been very helpful. To see how many other people go through this terrible rape of the soul – I can’t imagine how some of you come out of it after such a long amount of time. Well done to any of you who withstood it for longer that the 17 months I did.

      Love is care. Love is regard. Love is kindness. Love is compassion. Love is remorse when you hurt someone.

  86. Natalie

    Hello girls i wanna share my case with u, i met a narcissist on the line in 2007, we liked each other, there was a lot of physical attraction, after some conversations one day he told me i cant talk to u now cos i´m talking with my gf, he cut me off with a lot of coldness, after that when i was online we had superficial conversations and he always used tell me how gorgeous i was for him, i tried to protect myself from him but he was too attractive, i told him that i was going to visit his country, i told him too u know i like u very much but u got a gf, he started to act nicely and i had feelings for him, but at the same time he was ignoring me all the time, one day he told me he was drugged and we chatted for hours, then he confessed me he was an alcoholic and i really felt that my feelings were true and pure he made me fall in love with him, there was no scape for me, i always knew there was something wrong with this guy but i couldnt stop feeling what i felt, i was a virgin and i told him the truth, i carried on with my life and i tried to protect myself from him cos i´m not the kind of woman who involves with guys who have a gf, after that i told him i wasnt going to visit his country cos i was bussy with my life he got furious and he inssulted me, i walked away from him for almost 1 year but i still had him on my list of contacts, he used to talk to me when i was online, he put a pic of him and his gf kissing each other and i knew that was with the intention to hurt me, he told me one day did u find your man?, he told me he was different when he was sober but he was nasty almost all the time, rarely when i was online we had short conversations one day i told him my dad had cancer and he ignored my message, the next month one night i go online and he started to flirt with me telling me a lot of compliments, he was smoking grass , he sent me some voice files telling me how gorgeous i was cos i sent him my cam, after that i was some months offline, in April of 2009 my dad died of cancer, i went online to chat with my Friends the next day and he went online and i told him what had happened, he told me he wanted to comfort me , he told me that he had to go and he went offline, i had him added in 3 different accounts, i went offline and then i went online to my other account, he was online, i told him he was a cynic, a liar how he could told me he wanted to comfort me and then block me, i told him u know u dont have any obligation to talk with me, if u would have been sincere it wouldnt bother me, he told me i was an stupid c**nt he told me u dont believe in me i told him of course not.
    After my dad passed away he knew i was going to visit his country and some other places, i told him well, i dont wanna meet u cos u are cruel and u always wanted to use me sexually and i cannot forget what u did to me the next day my dad passwed away, he told me i hope u find what u are looking for. One day before all this he told me first i wanna f ** ck u and then see and i told him see what, i dont know he told me but u and i cannot live together. I have heard in different ocassions how he wanted to blame me cos we never met, telling me i was a bi**ch, that i had left him alone, he never wanted to understand that 2 people have to talk and know each other and share things in common before meeting each other, he always had the obsession of using me and discard me and he hates me cos i never gave him the chance to do that to me, he wanted things easy for him so he could take advantage abuse me and use me as he wanted.
    After i was in his country one day he saw me online and he told me how was your trip? and i told him it was very good and he told me what a pity i could have f** ck u!!, i blocked him and i didnt talk to him anymore, in January of 2010, i told me him that my life was being very good, we started to chat again i told him i wanted to spoke him on the phone, we had arranged a time but he never answered the phone, i thought with time he was going to change and be nice to me without any benefit and i never could understand this obsession for using me, that year that it was very good for me, at the end of 2010 i told him i was having some troubles in my life and i needed to solve them with time, he walked away from me for 3 years without giving me a good reason, i felt so bad,, so empty, so sad, so despair, during 2010 we had a good contact but he never told me sorry for all the things that he had done to me, i tried to start over with him he was sweet, he was nice, the problem with him always was that he always looked down his nose at me as he was be superior and me inferior, he always used the indifference to hurt me and i was a fool, i wasnt strong enough to walk away from him cos i felt i was in love with him, with time my life improved and i was 3 years contacting him, expressing him my feelings, telling him how much i cared for him, but at the same time i told him all the things he did to me and telling him how can u treat me so bad when i give u the best of me. Everything was so messy , my dad when he was alive he didnt let me travel alone cos i was just 19 but i told him that in October of 2013, he knew i didnt want to involve with him meeting him in person cos he had a gf but at the same time my dad didnt want to sign me a permission to travel abroad cos i was too Young, but i told him this a long time after.
    In November of 2013 he after 3 years of silence treatment he answered to me telling me how are u Nat?, it has been a long we dont talk. xxx. i felt so happy , so happy , i was in a good moment of my life and i was going to make many efforts to make it work, we started to chat again but i was scared and i told him better we end the contact cos i know what will happen if we start again, he told me i dont want u to leave but if theres someone to blame why we cant be Friends that its me, i told him yea for u. after some days i was feeling bad and i contacted him again we started to talk again, he started again telling me a lot of compliments, i sent him some videos and he sent me some pics, we were fine, i wasnt going to get into his game again and i told him that, he told me lets talk without demands and told him ok, he started to act with narcissism on Christmas day, he sent me a pic with his mother and i just talked about his mum¨s smile and i didnt comment on his pic and he felt ignored and he ignored me for the rest of the day, before ignoring me he told me did i change much?, i told him u are gorgeous beautiful, he told me if u find me attractive thats turns me on, after that he had times where he was sweet and some others he was another person. i told him if i go to see u would come to my country some day and he didnt want to answer to me, i asked the same question 5 times and at the end i felt he was playing with me and i told him it was over that i wasnt going to make any more efforts to make it work cos he didnt even care about me, those days he told me i wont involve myself with any other woman without giving u the world, he was playing with me, after the attitude he had with the pic i thought that he was really sick and that wasnt normal, he always expected compliments, attention, devotion from me and he always treated me with indifference, i told him when he didnt want to answer my question that i was moving on and i wished him the best and good luck with his life, he told me yea i wanna visit your country and many other places too, but i felt he was just being hypocrite with me. i decided to wish him on January of 2014 a very happy birthday and he told me u see Nat that when u want u can be nice to me, i told him i´m nice by nature but u got a problem not me, he started to flirt with me again telling me u have a cute nose, nice eyes, sweet lips etc. i told him u are gorgeous too , we flirted we were fine everything was normal, i told him u are cute but nothing will happen between u and i, he got mad, he changed his attitude, he was just pretending to be the nice guy to get something from me, i told him please forget it , if u are after all these years still thinking of using me u wont ever get it so please stop it, í´m not gonna flirt with u anymore cos u have bad intentions with me and those intentions wont ever change, the time we were flriting he told me he didnt like the woman who was in flirt with him be with other man, that was an indirect for me, i told him i was single without a man, he told me how on earth i ask u to put your life on hold, he told me he was the last 3 years alone cos he had things to solve with himsellf, then when i decided to stop the flirting he told me he had a lover but it wasnt nothing serious and i told him she must not be the only one, i decided to cut him off cos he was a malicious person a womanizer, in one of the last conversations he told me do u wanna know that u really drive me wild with desire, if i would be the asshole u tell me i´m i would con u into a situation to f*ck u and walk away free guilt, i told him u wont ever do that to me, u wanna use me, hurt me and u dont even care how much pain u could cause me, after that i decided to walk away before walking away from him, he told me lets be Friends no matter what happens, i told him do u think i can trust u and be your friend, no i wont be your friend, in February i told him that i wasnt going to talk to him anymore for the rest of my life and he told me that i was wrong and that i was far away from the truth,
    In March of 2014 i contacted him to tell him that i was getting on with my life and that i was going after my goals and that i didnt have in my life any problem and that he was trouble for me and i told him goodbye as i told him many times goodbye before. In April after some weeks of silence he answered to me telling me, u put me into a corner with things i couldnt promise to u ,stop lving in a dream world ,i told u that i wanted to get into your sn***rs to make u realise that it was true what i told u, imagine girls what i felt, he was dennying me that all the time and then he confessed it, then i sent him 20 voice files telling him a lot of things, why many things couldnt happen, he told me Nat dont bother, cos he thought i was sad for his confession and cos he talked about his ex to make me jealous, so i had to show him he was wrong, he didnt want to listen to the files until i finally convinced him and he listened them , some days ago he was so arrogant and i sent him a gorgeous pic of me , making fun of him, telling him how nasty and arrogant he was for me, he didnt answer, to me after some days he tells me u are average i had been 8 years with my ex and i loved him with everything i got, if u wanna know if i slept with a better woman than u yea i did, i didnt get mad i know this was his tactic of deffense, when he acted being an arrogant i decided to do something so he could see he wasnt important for me anymore cos when i told him that there were many better men than him and that my world didnt spin around him he told me he didnt even want to read the whole email, i told him i always knew u wanted to use me , u dont need to explain me anything cos u dont have even reasons and justifications for such a thing, i told him dont send me more messages i wanna be ok cos i already rescued myself from all your sh**t , i´m going on vacations to see the world cup with my Friends i wont answer to u any more messages.
    When i was in Braziil i told him to answer to me the truth if he had listen to the 20 files and he told me i dont even have them , cos before he told me things that i said on the files but at the same time he told me he just had listened to the first one but it was a big lie!!, well when he told me that he didnt even have the files i told him well ok, i just wanted to ask u that nothing else i told him i dont want no more contact with u that was all he told me ok lol see u , i told him see me where in your dreams i told him, 3 days ago when my country played the football match, ( i´m argentinian), he sends me an email wishing luck for the game.
    I told him please stop and dont contact me anymore, he told me i was accusing him of something it wasnt true that i thought he only wanted me for s**x , i told him u cannot deny what u told me u cannot deny the triuth i always knew it, the next day he told me f**King sorry for everything, for everything i did wrong, i told him i dont believe u, your sorry doesnt sound sincere and true, he told me havent we all said things we didnt want to, we didnt mean to, i told him u didnt need to compare me with your ex and i´m not a person who likes to compete with other women or people, i´m a confident woman i´m beautiful inside and out no matter what say or what u can think of me , i love myself. some days ago he started to be an arrogant again i told him how happy i was and the good time i was having in Brazil and that i was chatting with lovely men who treated me better than him and i had met a lovely man and that i felt like having and affair with him cos he was lovely but i told him this cos of his arrogance and ego cos he was treating me as he would be the last man on the earth,nothing happened with the guy we are only Friends cos he was a bit posessive and i felt we couldnt be more than Friends cos it was going to be trouble for me , this narcissist thought i had s**x with the guy i met in Brazil, i remember that night when i told him i was going to have a date with this guy called Scott he went crazy and jealous, he sent me like 10 messages in 1 hour telling me he didnt care that he was happy everything was over, i told him leave me alone, after 2 days i told him i was acting like a b**ch cos of his arrogance but that i was a decent woman, but at the same time that i was free to do whathever i want cos i was a single and free woman, he told me Nat move on u are like a twist, i told him u make me feel this ambivalence with all the things u tell me and your attitude, i told him theres no need to tell me to leave cos i already have done it dont u remember so do try to make me feel bad telling me to leave, its me who kicked u this time , go to f** ck with your girls and dont come to tell me more lies, dont try to fool me, dont be so cynic, faker, hypocrite, egocentric, arrogant, nasty cos u arent the only man in this world so get over yourself, grow up, get mature, dont be selfish and let me live my life in peace cos u wont be part of my future cos all u wanna do to me is f** ing me and walking away from me, i´m a beautiful and confident lady i dont need u in my life he got so so so furious he told me i couldnt give a s** t for u, u can do whathever u want, ok i told him but do u remember all the times u made fun of me, this is my turn and u act like this cos u are angry and jealous i tell u exactly what u told me before with the difference i wasnt in those states when u told me so.
    I told him look at u , u wanna diminnish me as a person as a woman as i wouldnt worth a s**t , i told him u dont have education, u arent the sexiest man and u dont have money why that arrogance with me , he told me if u dont stop i´m gonna block u, i told him i didnt care, then he told me i was obsessed with myself for what i was saying i said no, i told him i decided to love myself this time, i told him i´m an educated, Young beautiful , lovely woman he told me u are a fuc**ing b**tch, a c**nt, i told him say whathever u want cos i dont care, he sent me another message telling me i was buck tooth, a big lie, when he always told me how beautiful and stunning i was for him, so tired of so many humillations, inssults, offenses, tired of keeping my silence inside me cos i´m a peaceful, diplomatic, person and i was suffering all his attacks since a long time ago, cos i didnt want to hurt him, i didnt want to hurt his ego cos thats his main problem , his fragile and poor ego , i deciced to speak up with the truth, he is a handsome man but in my life i have seen sexier men, i pointed out his flaws giving him details and after this i told him before judging other people, look at yourself, look around u cos u aint perfect and u have a daughter who is overweight, u arent no one to approve and disapprove people, u are just and ordinary man who works in a factory, a simple worker and in your mind u think u are perfect in all the ways, u are the best for u and the rest of the people is s**t for u and u are completely wrong, he sent me the last message telling me exactly this, f**ck u f**in w***re how f***ing dare to talk about my daughter , u overstepped the line nasty Little c**nt, then i sent him a lot of messages explaining him and giving him my reasons for what i told him, i know his daughter had nothing to do with the situation but i believe that the good people like me need to give a good lesson to these heartless people, cos this narcissist believes he is untouchable and perfect but at the same time he shows how weak he is and how vulnerable he is and honestly i dont like the hostility between people but i knew soon or later i was going to explode cos the harrasing was too much for me, after some time of feeling myself frustrated for what i told him i understood that narcissists dont give u another choice but this one, soon or later a confrontration will be the reason to open the eyes and realise that these people have no cure and although i try to do my best to make things right they will always punish u in all the ways, i got tired of being treated like dirt, i never cared about his level of education, his job that he had a daughter i always tried to make things right cos i was completely in love with him, but at the end i understood i cant stop being myself for pleasing someone, even i do everything he wants me to, he will dissapoint me cos i never meant nothing for him, just a sexy woman, just a sexual object, i gave him all my respect i was single for years waiting for a change looking for the dialogue, thinking that some day he would be honest to me, theres no space in my mind to understand how a man can be so resentful, cruel and how he can keep the same idea on his mind of using me, in January 2014 his father was operated and i was there for him , trying to comfort him, telling him everything was going to be alright, giving him my support, he is 39 now he is 13 years older than me, he is an obstinate kid. very inmature, he told me he never have been in love with the mother of his daughter , i dont mind what was or whats in his heart, i got wrong cos i was inmature and i was completely in love with him and i couldnt let him go, the last contact the last fight was in July 2014 then for months i tried to explain him a lot of things, i talked about how things really were, i talked about the reasons of my actions, but he thinks i dont have the right to stand up for myself and that he has the right to step on me, to humíllate me and to walk over me all the times he wants, i told him i wont let anyone to step on me, any man, any person, any stranger,any friend, i´m so sorry for putting his daughter as an example, but i hate people who lives criticizing other people and they believe they are perfect, this is not the way i´m i just acted in self defence, he is the most inhuman person i knew in my whole life, he never wanted me in his life but he wanted to make me believe he cared for me, he repproached me one day and he told me if u would have come here when u said so i would have loved and cared for u like no other, i wouldnt ever have looked at other woman, pure lies, i had to put an end to that situation cos he never cared for me but at the same time he was making my life impossible, he pretended he cared for me to have me as a fool after his back, but then i could understand his game. he played with my feelings and my mind, but at the end i understand that a person can only hurt u if u give him the chances to hurt u, showing him how much i cared for him and that my love was real, i told him u dont wanna know me u dont want me in your life, i will get on with my life and i will do whathever i want and i dont care if u wanna convict me for all the things that happened i´m innocent u are the guilty, i told him i will use the indifference for u and that in the future when his rage was gone i wasnt going to be there for him anymore cos for me there wont be any sorry which can worth. lets be strong girls we can make it and start over again!!!!. xxxxxxx.

  87. I am so bummed. I had gone no contact for 2 straight months and I bumped into him at a baseball game, it was totally coincidental. I did the mature thing and I said hi cordially. He then text me later I guess to try to slither his way back in. I know it was by coincidence but I am just so bummed because I feel like I’m having to start the healing process all over again. :'( I was progressing and doing so well. I just feel like I took 5,000 steps back.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Enunez, I know how that feels. That’s one of the reasons that blocking them is so important because anytime they can reach us by phone or email, it usually does set us back quite far…

      1. Yes I agree. I can do it and I’m determined to move on. I am not going down that road of misery again.

      2. so devastated ...

        I just wrote my first post a minute ago and kept reading and have to post again… I am so devastated he has left me, I read all the stories about the Narc who comes back and I am so envious of those stories. I WANT him to come back. I know he won’t though and that makes me feel a million times worse! I wish he cared about me enough to bother to come back and yank my chain some more. It feels so much worse that he can just walk away and never look back.
        I know it is crazy but I envy all of you who have stories of him trying to come back to your lives. I wish nothing more than for him to come back : ( — to need me again.

        1. Cincinnati Chick

          Have you ever heard the story about the lion and the gazelle. Every morning in African the lion and gazelle have a role. The lion hunts and the gazelle runs away to survive. You will never see a gazelle chasing after a lion. They are wired differently. You ex is a gazelle. You are more powerful, happy, peaceful, amazing, that’s why he was attracted to you in the first place. But the moment you showed your strength, he ran, he did not stop…..he continued to run because he knew that you would ultimately take him out. Destroy him forever….and we all know that is something the narcissist cannot stand, he would rather continue to live his life of denial, shame, lies, deceit, evilness….why would you ever want that to come back to you. See this as a victory. You have forever destroyed what was meant to destroy you. You have the ability to reclaim what was lost, learn from the situation, and continue to live the powerful, happy, peaceful, loving life that you had before he came into your life. See it as a MAJOR blessing. You have been ushered into a new chapter of your life, a better chapter. A chapter without the worry of having someone who was not true come back around because he knows the power, the strength, the self-respect, the inner beast that you posses and it is to much for him to handle.

    2. Anonymous

      Wit would only be a strop back if you acpnseered his text. Did you answer his text? Otherwise, it’s a million steps forward. No contact, remember.

  88. June

    Hi Kim, I’m kind of tangled. Since the guy is a priest, I do not avoid him, on the pretext that I want to fight him being a priest (roman catholic). I accused him before authorities, but the person in charge said he couldn’t promise to change things (nothing new in the Church). So now I’m telling people the truth, since they believe he is a very decent man: that he has lady and children hidden in his closet. I know I’m not acting decently either, but the idea of making it known to everyone reduces the pain and gives me to hope that one day he may be kicked out.

  89. Jennifer

    I finally did the NC as much as I can considering we have kids. He is only aloud to text me about kids. He tried many times to attack me for various things like too many sweets for the kids in their lunch or about our daughter s eczema. I would ignore him and not text back. It has worked so far he has stopped the abusive attacks. He lost his supply and get his kicks off of it anymore. He still tries to convince everyone including me that I had an adulterous affair on him that I didn’t have!! Which I used to be scared of what people thought but I don’t hide what he did to me anymore!! Give the Narc a dose of their own silent treatment they will stop!! “What’s that?No fun to be ignored you say?”

  90. Mine lived in the same house and just refused to talk for weeks on end. Usually because of an argument he started wherein I refused to agree with him that I had done something wrong or I didn’t agree with him on whatever it was I supposed to agree with him. Or I just out and out did something “wrong.” He almost always included our young daughter in these silent treatments as well (she’s only 15 now). If you spoke to him, he would ignore you. But you had to go on speaking to him (and making dinner, and acting normal, etc.) until HE decided to break the silence…if you didn’t, you were accused of not paying enough attention to him. If you didn’t speak to him, then I (or we, because he included our daughter) were the real cause of the silent treatment and it was our fault it continued.

    1. I can identify with what you’ve described here, and know how difficult it is. Wondering something though-were you able to develop a satisfying emotional connection with your partner? Once I figured mine out, I realized he would never connect emotionally, beyond his own needs anyway…

      1. No, I was not able to. We’re still married though separated after 16 years of marriage. I’m in the process of divorce. He did so many things that kept me from being able to completely trust him or be connected to him completely on an emotional level. I don’t know why I stayed as long as I did except that I thought he would change or it would get better. And it never did. Same old story I guess. Yours sounds like mine. He’s only interested in his own needs…what he wants.

        1. Well, thanks so much for your reply. I suppose getting a narc to emotionally connect is kin to getting blood from a turnip-it isn’t happening. I wish you the very best through your divorce and into your improved future!

  91. Joe

    I am on the flip side here. I am a guy, I have been suffering with the receiving end of the silent treatment for a couple months now. My ex girlfriend and I broke up the first week of the year and we’re talking back and forth until the end of January. We had such a strong and fantastic relationship. I’ve been trying to win her back and show her how much I care about her and want our relationship, but I’ve realized it’s time to move forward. It has been a painful experience, two months of no replies to my calls and emails. I don’t understand what I’ve done for her to hate me so much and never talk to me again. It’s hard for me to imagine not talking to someone in my life ever again. I realize now that is going to be the case.

    I guess any advice or support to get through this hard time and the treatment I’m receiving would be appreciated.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Hi Joe. Thank you for reaching out and sharing your experience. I’m assuming that you believe your Ex to be narcissistic? I don’t really have enough info to go on, but if she is, indeed, a Narcissist, then her silent treatment is a type of punishment. If she’s the typical garden-variety Narc, then it’s very possible you’ll hear from her again, so be prepared (but don’t obsess about it). If she’s more of a cerebral narcissist, then you won’t hear from her at all. (Again, this is all assuming she’s a narc).

      Anyhow, regarding healing…that’s a long journey. It took me a couple of years to heal, but I didn’t have all the resources that we have now. You might want to begin by checking out my healing tools tab. One word of advice, the reason it hurts so much is because when the relationship is over, there is no closure and no apologies (at least not sincere ones). This dynamic triggers the fear of abandonment and toxic shame most of us have carried within us since childhood. I found that by targeting these two limiting beliefs, my healing progressed much faster.

      I hope that helps. Best wishes for your continued recovery.

  92. Kari

    Everything was always about him.. He always needed money too..he was unbelievably selfish but at times would act like he cared for me and loved me. He’d only wrote me a poem if he got something in return like money. He manipulated me very good. He started acting different in December and he said his disease was making him sick but wasn’t texting as much- I suspect a girl….The last day we were talking about marriage and I said something he didn’t like so he never texted me back and changed his phone number. ITs been a month of nothing which im actually happy about now because I realize He is cruel and a narcasist. I didn’t realize then but he lied about the possibility have having Cancer too. I want him to contact me again so I can tell him off but ether way I am better off
    I believe I was in love with his lies,false promises, and manipulation and not in love with him.

  93. jarwithaheavylid


    After 15 months of being Pinocchio’s ‘True Love’, I’ve realised that when I started lagging in the narcissistic supply camp, I was slowly discarded. I started to want more for myself, I started getting ‘too greedy’. My understanding for his situation waned.

    This has been a terrible experience – because of a couple of reasons. The first is that he is married – and told all the normal lies you read about adulterers. Speaking from my new-found experience, they do end up being not worth anything. Love-bombed, hoovered, bought. How terrible to lie to myself to believe that he loved me, that he needed me, that he would find the strength to leave his ‘marriage of convenience’, find his own legs and finally be together. I was so patient, so understanding, so giving, so loving, so kind. And I did it becuase I believed he loved me. I saw it on his face many times – there was no mistaking it. But what it really was was a reflection of my love – he craved it – he drowned in it – but he wasn’t able to find it in himself. I understand my role in getting involved with a married man, I take full responsibility – but I was also at a vulnerable time in my life, and I need to forgive myself for being so idiotic to get involved. I had never had this experience or met such a person before in my life – and I consider myself a very intelligent person. I mean, I figured out he had NPD within 16 months – something his wife has never figured out. The question I kept asking myself was ‘who does he think he is???’, over and over again.

    The second reason is that he knew I was aging and he used that to manipulate me. And now I have ten weeks to go until I give birth to our ‘lovechild’. But he left town just before I got pregnant (lucky me, really), and although he has seen me four more times, I would never accept him as my full-time mate because I don’t believe that you should swing from one woman to another. That’s how his wife got him – she stole this narcissistic, dramatic, emotionally-devoid baby from another woman. That other woman should shake her hand for the life the escaped living.

    Now we’re on our 4th or 5th ‘silent treatment’ stint. This is what someone who ‘loves’ me does when I’m pregnant with his child. I finally texted his wife about his lies because he’d keep popping up every month to keep me to him, give me hope, and never leave. Maybe I did the wrong thing, but I needed to set myself free – and because I felt I was losing my sanity, I thought maybe she might need being set free too. What he’s done to my mind in the last 16 months, I can’t imagine her mind in 17 years.

    So he needed to get control – he needed to get the upper hand and he called this morning to tell me never to call him again (however, what I had just done was sending a message to him so he could not continue this see-saw of manipulation). But we all know that he’ll get in touch when he’s bored again. The phone call was ‘NEVER CALL ME AGAIN!’ followed by ‘JUST LET ME CALM DOWN AND THEN I’LL CALL YOU AGAIN (something he’d used last April in another phone conversation where he accused me of sleeping with his colleague), followed by ‘NEVER CONTACT ME AGAIN!’, followed by “I LOVE YOU, I DON’T KNOW WHY I STILL DO AFTER EVERYTHING YOU DO TO ME, BUT I LOVE YOU!’, followed by ‘NEVER CALL ME AGAIN’. When the 37-minute conversation was finally over, he hung up on me, and then five minutes later decided to text me ‘Please don’t contact me again. It’s over.’ Then blocking. Yeah yeah yeah, whatever. Whatever you need to feel like you’ve got to have control.

    Actually, when he started telling me that his wife had kicked him out and he was living on the farm without his dog that died recently and without a fireplace because the farmhouse is being renovated, I laughed. I felt his anger was feigned, and I couldn’t get swept up in the attempt at emotionally derailing me. This has happened before. But when he told me that his wife had a bigshot lawyer in Brisbane and that she was vindictive and manipulative and to expect a call from her – be careful what I tell her because she’ll use it against me – and that she would sue me for my apartment – WTF!?! Excuse my language, but he is just damned crazy. Later when I got off the phone I started to get the instinct that he is actually lying, she didn’t kick him out and that he’s just tried to head me off at the path. What a headwreck.

    But my pregnancy.. it’s screwed up, controlled, manipulated, and it feels like a lie. I had to love someone as much as I loved him to ever want a child, and then when I got pregnant (I believed that we both wanted the child even though it was an accident because he offered it so many times, even though I refused), all his behaviour changed. That’s not love. Love isn’t a feeling like the feeling I needed to procreate (probably evolution, really). It’s care, respect, kindness, thoughtfulness. What pisses me off the most is that I waited 25 years to procreate, and I procreated with such a being.. a being that my being still loves! But they are addictive emotions that I need to get control of.

    One thing I think is interesting – being a narcissist in this way seems to have an evolutionary advantage – but please, please let’s not say it’s genetic. I will cry and cry if this child ends up anything like him.

    1. Kim Saeed

      Thank you so much for sharing your story. I,too, was mistreated while pregnant. I’m glad you took the steps necessary to detach from him. Regarding your sweet child who’s on the way, there is a better chance that he or she will develop normally since you’ve removed the disordered person from your family unit. Though there are s few studies indicating genes may play a factor in this area, it appears a child’s environment during their formative years are most important and indicative of what their personality will be. Sounds like you’ll be a great mom ☺️

    2. @jarwithaheavylid – I had a similar circumstance that I still wonder about – you mentioned that he was with the ex for about 17 years before you – mine was as well – they were together since high school – never married, but common law with two young children living in the same home… Maybe Kim can shed some light here as well?

      From what I gather, I would have been the “first” victim after his “first” victim – he left her and his children for me – 17 years though….this is why I had such difficulty pinning the NPD profile from the start as he was in a lifetime of a long term relationship before doing this to me. Hearing the stories of parts of their relationship and experiencing how she reacted in the end though, I have no doubt in my mind that she went through 17 years of a similar hell, but somehow was able to survive in it.

      I question what had to transpire for that to happen? Did she know what I knew? Was she more passive and eventually did not say or do anything that contradicted him? Did she simply let things go and not fight back? Mind you, when I met him, he was “living in the basement” of their shared home for the “sake of the kids” in raising them……

      I do agree though – I felt some comfort in knowing that truly she should shake my hand in thanks for getting him out of her life and getting full custody of her children without him in the home and living there common law. It took me a short 4 months to conclude the NPD profile having started researching the first time we had a disagreement about two months in…… a most “disturbing” disagreement with the behaviours, speech and actions involved during. I didn’t stop researching since that point…. I got suckered back in only once after leaving – like a haze had completely erased my knowledge and experience of what he had put me through up until that point…..everyone knows what I am talking about…..

      When I left NC for good, it was only after we became engaged. After leaving the first time, the same abuse and behaviours came back in fewer than two weeks – and they were FAR worse and FAR more outrageous than before….. I remember saying “no, no, no… how is this happening again? You promised it was your turn to do everything you could now for me after what I went through with you and your separation…..OMG…I can’t turn back now – I made this choice – this HAS to work now” After coming back, I endured the most heinous existence I have ever experienced….. I became a soulless, mindless shell of my former self. I was literally taken to the edge of losing my sanity in whole.

      So my question is this: He was with her since the age of 20 until 37 – common law home, two very small children, and he stayed put – in the basement for the last year or two. Why was I the first one after this? Why did it take so long? How was she able to endure the monster he dished out?

      I worried for several months after that his “vasectomy” was a sham, and that I might be pregnant after leaving him. I was not, and I wouldn’t have known what to do if I was.

      To follow up with your worry about your child inheriting the same qualities: I echo Kim in her response – although children may be born with certain genetic dispositions, it is well documented in psychological research that fundamentally, the personality and character that will grow from your offspring shall generate from their upbringing and environment.

      Ergo, past factual psychological documentation dictates: Absence or elimination of an abusive/psychologically disordered parent from a child’s life when being raised by a nurturing, loving and psychologically sound parent, paves the road to positive behavioural and psychological development in their offspring. More encouraging still, is that chances of success can multiply when that same parent has the knowledge to aid and educate their offspring, having the personal experience of surviving the trauma and abuse from such a disordered individual.

      I wish I had the privilege of passing this information to a child of mine. I will not. It is my hope that those of you who can…….. will.

      I have no reservation, hesitation, fear or shame in posting all of his disgusting words to me….. Hear the actual words my friends in battle – read how they are similar to what “he” has said to you…… I didn’t believe what I knew I had to believe because I couldn’t accept this as reality – even after reading the words of others…. I wish I had read dictation of actual words and phrases said by them…. it would have clicked in sooner….

      NC with him for 3 months – I’m gone for good. He shows up at my door unannounced. I called the police. Two weeks later when getting rid of my former email accounts… I find this:

      “Record with mountain police this. I just realized with sadness for you. You’ve lost more than you know you have. Omg im so sorry for you. I saw everything recently. In a different circumstance, your playful personality would have been a perfect mix to interact with my kids. But you knew that. I’ve dated a few since you. Haven’t felt the magnetism I’ll expect from there on out….there was recently one, but….whatever. I wish you were able to speak. Constable whatever his name was, I like him. He is just doing his job, but he sees more than you think. He is wise. I only spoke to him 4 minutes I knew that. Big picture viewer he is. We need more of those.
      I can’t help your apprehension or anxiety, If I could I would take it all”

      RECORD THIS IN CYBERSPACE………….I realize no sadness for you, only your children when they are in contact with you.

      I’ve been waiting to post this quote for awhile now – it’s from the 80’s movie Labyrinth:

      Through dangers untold and hardships unnumbered, I have fought my way here to the castle beyond the Goblin City to take back the child that you have stolen, for my will is as strong as yours, and my kingdom as great — You have no power over me.

      And that is the end. I fought my way back beyond his goblin city. I took back my inner child he stole from me. My will was greater and so was my kingdom. And he no longer has any power over me.

      Love and light to all the rest…..fight for the kingdom stolen from you that was rightfully yours and should have never been taken.

      1. jarwithaheavylid

        @newmeandfree – thanks for sharing – I do sometimes doubt my intuition, but it really can’t be ignored.. there is too much evidence in the past when I reframe everything through the eyes of someone who can see that he is psychologically damaged.

        But – he is still WITH his ‘wife’. So, like you, I scratch my head to wonder what kind of a person could possibly put up with his psychological abuse… a very damaged one. I mean, I have also spent very close time with this man, who has moved the goalposts, used smoke and mirrors, lied, reneged on promises, and never stuck to his word on things. And she has written to me a few times and makes out that he is VALUABLE. I just can’t see it. He’s cheated on her, given another woman a child (I showed her the text messages of him asking me to tell him when he should give me a child and when he should leave his family but she let it slide), and she STILL thinks (or portrays the image) that he is someone to respect, worth keeping, loving. I am just dumbfounded.

        The thing that helps me to see that she is not stupid (because I’ve often thought she must be one of the dumbest people ever) is that when I started talking to my sister about the situation, she came clean that her ex-husband has NPD. And my sister isn’t stupid. 24 years she was with him, and she was on medication, was depressed, and was made to believe so many things were her fault. Now she has another lovely man and a new baby, and is still very, very scarred from the whole experience. The father uses all his children, buys them, but never sees them as anything but an extension of himself, just like Pinocchio. Pinocchio has said that his ‘wife’ is a trophy wife – she is a good, martyr of a wife, selfless and kind with few boundaries from what I can gather, and what I know of his relationship with his children is that he pays them to score goals at soccer (which we disagreed about). Like her, they are just extensions of his image.

        I scratch my head too, because I also may be his first affair (and there will be others) after the 17 years (even though just recently he told me that he has a foursome in Hong Kong with three Canadian-Chinese women a year before he got married). He was grooming me to be with him, but I wouldn’t allow him to make that jump. Somehow she thinks that he wouldn’t leave to be with me, but I have so, so many texts about how we have to be together – I just can’t be bothered trying to persuade her that she is being screwed over.. it’s not my business, but I feel so, so sorry for her. But who knows – maybe she knows he’s ill and uses that against him. But how could you put your children under the same roof as such a person? She thinks she’s ‘keeping the family together’ but really, she’s just letting her children be abused by this type of NPDed father – I will never allow him to come and go from our lives and I will definitely put no contact into effect when he pops his head up again (which is guaranteed with this disorder). The child will be his pawn.

        It is still hard to accept – I loved this man so, so much – and he wasn’t even real. Part of me still can’t accept that he is sick, but I have to – or I’ll end up like you – as soon as Pinocchio sees a crack in the door, he’s back! Playing all the same games, maybe even worse ones because he knows he can get away with it. I valued him so much. I really hope she has the strength to leave this character one day. Unfortunately she sees me as the enemy – but really, she’s sleeping with the enemy. The enemy lies within and it’s really up to her to figure it out.

      2. Although we both “scratch our heads” at the longevity of their involvement – albeit in the short time of mine, I exhibited these self same behaviours in a haze of smoke and mirrors – largely due to incessant Gas lighting and twisted projection. I am very intelligent myself – gifted in fact; however, I am the product of a Borderline Personality Mother and an enabling father – it was because of my involvement with him that I am now able to realize how I have been affected from my childhood and how it moulded me into a relationship like this. The fortunate part is that my father’s warm nurturing and intellect coupled with so many good friends in my life enabled me to have the lifelines needed to escape. I can not fathom the circumstances that “she” has been subjected to in her life, nor her current mental state, nor her family/friend support system. I nearly became disordered myself in the short time with him – so imagine someone who endured that and stayed with that without any lifelines of escape. Perhaps they had them as well, but their character was different, or their situation was different, or the abuse was different Regardless “she” surely could have been me – and it was me for a time. I can only imagine the state I would have lived in had it continued……

        It happens to the smartest people and the most loving and kind people – there are a plethora of factors that contribute to why some can never escape, or why some are taken in faster, or why some can run faster…. too much to be discussed here, but I am compassionate and non judgemental towards all of those who were or are in a relationship with this disordered personality – no matter the duration. I guess what we are both asking or wanting to know, is what her “factors” are – so we may better understand our own.


  94. Kari

    I dated a narcassist. I said something he didn’t want to hear and I haven’t heard from him in over a month. He didn’t even break up with me….He just walked away and changed his cell phone number….he owes me money…The cruelty I have experienced with him is nothing I have ever dealt with. I’m very sad but I now realize that I was in love with his lies.

  95. I can completely understand what you all are going through! I dated a Narc for a year and a half. He discarded me about a month ago after I caught him lying and cheating he said I acted “crazy” so he decided to give me the silent treatment. I had just had it with all his lies and manipulation so I took that opportunity to BLOCK his calls texts. At first I felt like I was dying. It was like a horrible withdrawal but I had to stay strong! Every other time before I’d leave he’d hoover me back with his lies and manipulations! I am not allowing that this time. I feel I’m a lot stronger and in a much better place. He’s a wolf in sheeps clothing, a true monster! I wish we could brand these people so that others can be aware. They literally suck the life out of you. I just keep thinking of all his demeaning and belittling comments and how I was never good enough that’s enough for me to not ever want to see him again! He mocked me in ally accomplishments and would ostracize me at his convenience. I love myself and I deserve way better! Thank you all for sharing I’m so glad to hear I’m not alone!

  96. Thank you all for sharing. I’ve been reading and I can completely understand what you all have gone through. The narc is a monster! A wolf in sheep’s clothing! I Was discarded by him a month ago because I acted “crazy” when I caught him cheating. I had just had it after putting up with his abuse and manipulation a for a year and a half. I felt it was my chance to break free. I blocked his calls and texts ever since and at first I felt like I was dying. But I knew I had to do it for myself. I have remained strong. All the other times I tried leaving he would Hoover me back and I would fall for the lies and manipulation. now I’m coming out of the fog and I am actually feeling like I’m free! I feel strong and I dont miss him! I feel so empowered! Dealing with a true narcissist was definitely a life changing experience, I will take my pain and learn from it. I wish we could brand them so that other women can be warned of the true monsters they are!

  97. I have one more thing to let go of in order to fully heal from this trauma. I’m not sure that I will ever be able to forget as long as I live. I was supposed to be a stepmother to his two wonderful, young children. I already treated them and loved them as my own and felt their love in return. I will never ever know how they will grow up and I will never ever know if they will be ok.

    I just wish their mother had told me the truth or at least had the courage to speak to me over the course of the year…..woman to woman, in earnest and emotionally driven. It doesn’t matter whether or not I would have believed her or not at that time……but it would have planted the seed of doubt that would have given a plausible reason to the queasy bottomless pit of doubt that I carried for so long……

    After I left for good, I struggled for over a month with the devastating guilt that consumed me because I could not help those children from his inevitable harm. I could not be their step mother and nurture them and guide them on a healthy path. I would never be able to tell them the truth, and I would never be able to explain to them why they had to suffer in even more confusion when they were told that I had walked away from them and their father never to return again. I have to live with whatever it is that they have been told to believe about me and the reality that they may always think that I was the one who discarded them. I can never escape this unanswerable question. I can never solve it, fix it, or have closure from it. I have to live with the thought of two young children believing that I was the one that hurt them, and their father and their mother. It tears me up inside to fathom that this is their truth.

    I can accept the damage done to me, but I will never be able to accept the damage that has needlessly been done to these children by him because I was involved in his life. I want them to know, I want them to understand, I want them to live a good life devoid of their father’s disturbed existence…………but I will never know how they will turn out…….and I have to be ok with it.

    I can not help them, and I can not save them. It is not my responsibility to do so, nor should it be. Truth be told, I honestly contemplated sacrificing myself and my happiness to stay with him so that I could stay in the children’s lives…… but I had to walk away from them to save myself.

    While contemplating this madness and having to come to terms with the helplessness of it all, I had an epiphany…..I realized that I had actually inadvertently and unknowingly saved them after all. This realization has allowed me to let go of the guilt in a situation that I had no control over. I was finally free and happy and able to let go.
    I realized that it was BECAUSE of me, she was able to break free from him, get full custody of her children and rid him from her life and family home forever……… was because of me that they now live free. I had a hand in helping them after all.

    I hope that one day she is able to fully heal from the traumas she experienced by being with him. I hope one day she realizes that I know what she knows, and I truly understand and forgive her actions that directly injured and traumatized me by association. I innocently and obliviously participated in the wicked game he was playing and fell victim to a disturbing feud that I should have had no business being a part of. I forgive her for having to hurt me unintentionally so that she could escape from him. I can’t say that I would have done exactly the same thing, but I can say, that I understand why she did what she what she did and I do not fault her for it.

    All that matters now, is that we are all in a better place. Two women escaped from their abusive relationship with this man, and two young children are now given a better chance to live a healthier and happier life having less contact with him from now on.

    I hope someday she understands that he was responsible for causing us all this pain, and is able to forgive whatever ill feelings towards me that she might have had at the time that justified her hurt. I hope that one day she will know that it was him that made us both crazy…..and neither of us are crazy….

    I hope that your children grow up to be wise, creative, sensible, kind and caring human beings. I will never forget about them, and I will always love them. I will always remember that brief moment in time when I existed in a place where I was to care for them forever too. It is the only happy memory that I have to carry forward with me from all of this, and it is enough for me to smile and be grateful for those moments that I was given with them.

    I will never know the answer, but I choose to believe that I did not suffer in vain. I am able to let go of my pain and move on now. I am no longer a prisoner held captive by hurt from this insanity. I am at peace with myself. I hope you are too.

  98. Free

    I was with a narc for 8months. We were engaged to be married. He treated me so well in the beginning. I felt like I had met my soul mate. He “loved” my son and said he couldn’t live without us. We had a really intense relationship. With really high highs and really low lows. If he didn’t get his way he would get upset and ignore me. At times he would break up with me, then beg for me to take him back. If I didn’t answer his phone call, he would either ignore me or break up with me. He was influenced greatly by other people. He was good looking, confident, funny and outgoing. However he used to ask me for money and wanted me to support him while he got his bussiness going, I foolishly agreed. He constantly asked for me to tell him what I love about him etc. I was so head over heels that I couldn’t see what was happening. He told me he was jelous of the affection I showed my son, and said that it was “abnormal”. The final discard happened after I didn’t reply to his text message. He said it wasn’t working but he really loved me and wished we could be together. I agreed and wished him well. He then blocked and deleted me. I sent him an email, which he ignored. I was so confused and upset as to why he would cut me off. It physically made me sick. It wasn’t until I read these blogs, that I realised that I was with a narcissist. It’s been 3 months of no contact. I hope I never hear from him again.

    1. Hey Free… my story begins and ends exactly with the wording you have used
      My story: I was with a Narc for 8 months too… we were also engaged to be married. He treated me so well in the beginning – a whole whopping two months of awesomeness. He told me he had met his soulmate and I thought I had found mine.Intense relationship – super high highs and disgustinly low lows. He would ask me to partner up with him on his “projects” so that he could use my email account or my registration to “hide” his earnings from his ex. His first uncomfortable request of me was to put my name on a “secret” stock trader account so that he could hide his activities from her. I instantly expressed my discomfort with being asked to technically partake in an illegal activitiy… since that was the first time he pushed my boundaries… he only prodded lightly… by the end of the relationship, he would bash me down for not doing anything that he wanted me to, and accused me of not supporting anything he does….. needles to say, that NONE of his earth shattering and incredibly intelligent money making dream ideas EVER EVER EVER went any futher than his failure to sign up for a starter email address….
      the end of it wrapped up nicely, when I was the one that purchased our engagement rings on mt credit card… degrading and humiliating…… 3 months now, no contact and he is banned from trespassing on my property.

      I cant believe how many rediculous, offensive and embarassing things I allowed him to do to me and put me through. The “love of my life” promised me that he would “NEVER shit on me”

      And he never really did… we was very careful not to shit where he ate, and more careful still that no one saw shit on me…. but he shit everywhere around me and made me slide around in it and say that I loved it….

      Sorry, that was a bit crude, but , of my worst memories….of his deliberate deceit and malicious lies

  99. Only the people affected by emotional abuse such as this can fully understand how it is possible to still love their abuser and long for that which we were tricked into believing we had. I just taped a list onto my bedroom door which is literally as long as my leg, and details each and every despicable treatment my abuser employed against me…and yet the sadness over missing him continues…the fantasy of someday being happy with him is the hardest thing I’ve ever had to put out of my thoughts. It is horrible, and anyone with the ability to see the train wreck ahead for the disaster it truly is would be wise to choose another route…

  100. SadGal

    Kim and agirlswaytolive,

    Thank you so much for taking the time to provide your caring, thoughtful insights.

    Kim, I have been doing a lot of research and reading on narcissists to determine if the object of my affection is one. Some narcissistic signs he possesses: very selfish and prioritizes his wants and needs above everyone, myself included; seems to feed off attention from women; seems very preoccupied with his sexual prowess and attractiveness; has a history of cheating on women; often tells me things, then when I bring it up again tells me he never said them or that I am putting words in his mouth; promises me wonderful things, but makes minimal effort or doesn’t try at all; is scared of commitment; alcoholic; and very hot and cold towards me. For a few days he’ll think I’m the greatest thing since sliced bread and will want to surround himself with me. Then when I want to be around him, he’ll be distant for a week. The relationship is a roller coaster and I feel when he’s good, I’m the happiest I can be, and when he’s bad, I’m devastated.

    Signs he may not be narcissistic: when talking about himself, he never brags or inflates himself or his accomplishments; he is rather quiet and does not like to be in the spotlight (but he does seem to need attention from women); has only asked me to do things for him several times – small stuff like picking up something from the store; does not use me to unload his problems on. He is very independent and vacillates between being a loner and going on drinking binges where wants to interact with women at bars. Oddly enough, I truly feel that he does care about me and feel for me.

    Back to the situation at hand, this is the first time that he has given me the silent treatment. It is hard to tell if I am getting the silent treatment, or if he has cut me off completely without bothering to tell me so. Unfortunately, when I confronted him, it was over text message. After a few texts, he ceased to respond to anything and cut my phone call. He has blamed me in the past for my lack of trust, but you two are right that my issues with trust are due to his past lies and cheating.

    Agirlswaytolive, you’re so right that I am experiencing immense pain, confusion, and despair and anxiety wondering if I will hear from him again and when.

    Kim and Agirlswaytolive, I’m also wondering, because I suspect my man is at least a low level narcissist, if he is purposely being cruel to punish me with the intent that I suffer and grovel. I am wondering whether my apologies annoy him or if he wants them.

    Kim, did I read on your blog that narcissists return after silent treatment? If so, how long can that take if a narcissist is really mad? If I disappear and stop trying, will that make it more likely that he returns? I know you’re probably thinking why I would want that, but I’m addicted and in love with my possible narc. – Sad Gal

    1. The best advice anyone can give you is to run the opposite direction and never look back ANYTIME the one you love hands you pain and sadness more than a few times over. People worthy of your love will never endeavor to weaken and then destroy you.
      I know how you’re suffering, and truly hope you wise up much faster than I did…

    2. Sad Gal-
      So I blocked my ex, as I said…I woke up Monday Morning with a Voice message (in my blocked list) – he said “that picture you saw of me and a girl was my cousin, hope you feel better about yourself.” I never said anything to him or replied, because I now know that he is a liar and always lied. He is a damn good liar too. I always believed him in the past. Had it not been that the picture was labeled and I confirmed it with his sister (which he will never know, I know the truth and that he flat out lied and denied it), I would have called him – apologizing… I remember when the first time he went Silent- I spent so many countless hours in agony, trying to research everything about stuff like- “how to respond to the silent treatment,” “what makes someone go silent,” more than that, I also would write and ask on Yahoo Answers stuff like- “Silent Treatment or Silent Breakup,” “Give him A second Chance or Cut ties,” I couldn’t sleep, I tried to think back everything I said that may have turned him off. That was the first time- he came with flowers and his “sorry.” Plus the believable “sorry excuse,” I took him back…Again- do you remember in my post I said this is the 5th time within almost 2 years that I went through this? He had the best excuses every time— “you’re just so flawless,” “I am so in love with you, I just don’t know what to do,” “I have never felt this comfortable around anyone, I am not use to this,” “You are too good for me.” It goes on and on, SadGal… What this did was made me believe he was being vulnerable and because I was so addicted to him and this cycle, I wanted to give him chance after chance to “prove” himself as he always asked and promised. It was the same thing, every single time… The sad truth about you seeking advise is- you will still listen to YOU. Sandy is right- get out while you can. Could you imagine doing this to him, whom you dearly love? I mean honestly, the pain and heart ache- there is absolutely no excuse for the silent treatment, NONE. Don’t accept it. I don’t want you to go through what I did, Kim, or Sandy has. I am still in the fresh state of finally letting go and seeing clear. But there is a part of me that feels like “I could help him.” Not doing it!

      1. Thanks, agirls. Stay strong! Almost 5 months for me, after 8 years with him. The man I so dearly loved and needed evolved into such a cold, cruel emotional sadist…I spent the last 4 trying desperately to counteract, circumvent, overcome, overlook, understand. Despite all advice and warnings, I believed I could turn things around if I learned enough to psychologically engage, fire back, play his game, give him some of his own medicine. I TRIED SO HARD, so many different techniques, maneuvers, and ploys. Many survivors here and in countless abuse forums gave similar optimistic, yet wasted efforts, just trying to hold on and cling desperately to a person who will rip you to shreds and wipe his boots on your back, if you’ll jus give him all the time and opportunity he needs. The longer you stay, the deeper it cuts in the end. It stings all the more to reflect back and recall sage advice and stern warnings you failed to heed, now all the more to your detriment, as you try to pick up the pieces and get back to whole…
        Use your head, always!
        Love should NOT be painful in any appreciable degree or manner.
        People who change and pull stunts that leave you reeling, lost and wounded are THE ONES to discard, POSTHASTE!!! No if’s, and’s, but’s or maybe’s!
        If it hurts, HERE’S your sign: INCREASING ABUSE AHEAD/DANGER to your Emotional and Physical Well-Being////ALL SMART PEOPLE EXIT HERE!!!

        TAKE IT FROM THE EXPERTS, the walking-wounded, who wish nothing more than to be able to keep even one more from finding out THE HARD WAY…

      2. agirlswaytolive-I intended to thank you for you support, but I erupted with a lecture…sorry for that, and know it wasn’t toward you!

        1. Sandy! No apology needed. I think what you say is only the truth! I need to hear as much info as possible as I am in the midst of the torture of mixed emotions with my ex. He lied and yet I still want to believe him. I don’t understand myself as to why I feel so trapped and desperate for his sorry ass! He did nothing but brought me pain. I won’t go back, hearing and reading all of the stories that went on for many many years… I am so glad I found Kim’s blog.
          It ends here for me- I won’t continue this cycle and being his supply. It sickens me. Thank you for any advise you can give.

    3. Kim Saeed


      It’s a little difficult to tell what “level” Narcissist he is and it’s possible he may have another disorder that overlaps, but I can only speculate at this point.

      I think the driving issue here is how he makes you feel. You are obviously suffering a great deal from his mistreatment of you and your feelings and that you feel very insecure in the relationship. I think there’s enough information here to safely say he won’t change his toxic behaviors, regardless of which disorder he may have. I think you’ll need to take action that will allow you to break free from this situation and do some healing work and engage in self-care.

      Wishing you all the very best <3

  101. SadGal


    Your website is a Godsend! I have been in an off and on relationship with a man who I suspect to be a narcissist for a little over a year. He has made many improvements since the time we have been together (being honest and faithful – which he wasn’t originally), but still our relationship is still full of ups and downs where he values and pursues me for a few days and then grows colder and distant for a week.

    Currently, we are broken up, but up until two weeks, ago, saw each other about every week or so to talk things through. Recently, I broke into his phone and checked his text messages. I saw the name of a woman I didn’t recognize telling him that she got them a table. I asked him about it and of course I had to reveal that I had looked in his phone. Turns out the woman was a coworker notifying him that she had gotten a table for his work group. I later looked up her name and saw that she was an older woman with kids and does indeed work for his company.

    He is very angry with me for snooping in his phone and reading his messages and is giving me the silent treatment even though I wrote him a very sincere apology that I have trust issues that I need to work on and I begged for his forgiveness telling him how much I genuinely care for him. I know I made a big mistake.

    In your knowledge, will a narcissist forgive a situation like this? It has been a little over two weeks since he began giving me the silent treatment. I even asked him to tell me if it’s over and he would rather not have any contact with me again and no response.

    1. Kim Saeed

      SadGal, thank you for reaching out and sharing your situation.

      When you say that it turns out she is a coworker and had gotten a table for their “work group”, do you have proof of this other than his words to you?

      It’s possible that this is the case, but it’s also entirely possible that she got a table for the two of them and he is telling you it was a work function to save face, making you feel guilty in the process.

      By the way, Narcissists often target women with kids because they believe these women are easy “prey”.

      Of course he’s angry that you checked his phone, but if not for his actions in the past, you wouldn’t have felt the need to do so.

      I can’t say whether or not he has NPD, but it doesn’t sound like a healthy relationship. On the other hand, if he IS a Narcissist, then your suspicions are correct, he is having an affair and covering it up while at the same time making you feel you are the one at fault and begging for his forgiveness, when all the while, he is doing everything you’re afraid that he’s doing.

      As for your question, “Will he forgive?” – Narcissists don’t really forgive anyone for anything. He will, however, trigger your fear of abandonment for a while by using the silent treatment so that by the time he returns, you’ll be like putty in his hands, forgetting all of his wrongdoings.

      Give yourself some time to really think about what value this person is bringing into your life.

    2. Sad Gal,

      I WAS in the same situation. I finally got the nerve to block my ex from all social networks and phone yesterday, after I saw a picture of “him and his girlfriend” it was labeled his name and girlfriend. To back up a bit– I was going on a week silent treatment that HE did for the 5th time in 2 years. Every single time it left me worried, ill, stressed, feeling desperate, and blaming myself so that hopefully he would just make things right again. This last silent treatment was literally over him “losing a job,” “in a dark place.” All while because I “loved” him so much- I was texting hid reassuring him I am here. All in the midst I was ignored, deleted from FB, confused, and willing to fight for him. I stopped all contact about 10 days ago. I am still friends with his sister on fb, saw a family function in her new–and that is when I saw the picture of him and another girl. I private messaged her, because we are on good terms (she has distanced herself from her own brother)- she straight out told me this girl was a huge surprise to everyone and confusing, means they have only known about me. The sister and I agreed to keep out conversation between us. But, before I blocked him I sent a text saying something like- “Wow, all this time I’ve care and was concerned about you, and all this time you have another girlfriend, your stuff is on your porch.”
      So his VM this morning he said “the picture you saw was not my girlfriend, she’s my cousin, hope you feel better about yourself.” He has NO clue that his sister and I spoke, plus when I went to drop his stuff off– his other sister was on the porch and I set the box down and just told her it was stuff for her brother. She told me “I am sorry for the way he is.” That was that. My point here – is if it were the other way around for you and your guy- given your past- if he looked through your phone and found that- would you ignore him -means that you love him? No, you would make sure that he is comfortable with the whole situation – if it truly was no big deal. Knowing how the silent treatment makes you feel, I am certain YOU would not do that to someone you love, knowing the pain, confusion, despair, how it makes you feel low– Never, never want someone to feel that. I have been miserable for 2 years, always on edge- I did nothing to deserve the treatment and as much as it killed me to see that picture of my ex and the girl- I had to, it was the only way I could break this spell he has had me in.

  102. Anonymous

    i have been in a narc relationship i have been quiet for one months he text me and i also text back with few words i know he is using me in every way possible finances borrowing my car of which i never give him. he can assist me, borrows money and never refunds and also is attracted to women with higher status is he a narcissist.


    1. Johnny

      Social status aka: what you do in life ($$) is more important than ‘true’love and loyalty.

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